My Equation For A New Nissan Battery!

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sthbeach

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
74
2018 Nissan Leaf SL
40,000kms
SOH: 94%
Ownership: 1 month

I guestimate the car has been on the road for 18 months previous to me owning it and LeafSpy showed 98 DCFC's and 587 L1/L2 charges =
6 DCFC per month
33 L1/L2 per month.

My current driving =
0-2 DCFC per month
25 L1/L2 per month
I do approx 40-45k kms per year so I will be out of warranty by approx spring 2022.

Let's say, by necessity, I have to start DCFC by spring 2020 giving me 2 years or 24 more months till my warranty runs out.
So at 20 DCFC a month ( approx 3 x the current rate) and 25 L1/L2 charges a month ( approx equal to the current rate).

So if I am currently losing .33% SOH a month and for the last 2 years or 24 months I increase that rate 3 X ( because of DCFC) to 1% a month, I can effectively lose an additional 24% SOH before the warranty is up. Add the 8% loss I will approx be at by spring 2020 and this = Grand total of 32% SOH loss = A new battery from Nissan!

Hell, if I have to I can even take an extra trip a weekend to my local DCFC charger 5 kms away to tack on about an extra 100 DCFC's in the 2 year period for insurance purposes to put me over the top.
It might actually work!

Of course this assuming all stats are actual and not Nissan mumbo-jumbo bullshit.
 
I don't follow the topic that closely but my impression is that a partial QC isn't all that detrimental and the real issue is multiple full quick-charges per day. It sounds like a lot of work to sit there for hundreds of full charges if all you really need is a small charge here and there, and unless the QC station is free it's going to cost you money. And the outcome is not guaranteed; you may end up shooting yourself in the foot and spending a lot of time and effort to get there.

And we've already discussed the easiest way for you to improve your range, which is good for the battery as well.
 
Well, I am at 94.13% SOH, I know there is no guarantee of linear degredation but if by the spring my battery is less than 92% SOH, I'm going for it!
I can always try like a 3 month trial run with driving hard and doing a 20 minute DCFC every day and log all my stats from LeafSpy and then make a decision whether to keep on that pace or just give up and dial it back.
 
I don't follow the topic that closely but my impression is that a partial QC isn't all that detrimental and the real issue is multiple full quick-charges per day.

You don't need a full QC for degradation, just enough to heat the pack to marginally hot. That can, IIRC, be as little as a third of a full charge, in warm weather.
 
That's what I thought too, Lefty.
So a 20 minute DCFC a day will not keep the doctor away!
 
sthbeach said:
Well, I am at 94.13% SOH, I know there is no guarantee of linear degredation but if by the spring my battery is less than 92% SOH, I'm going for it!
I can always try like a 3 month trial run with driving hard and doing a 20 minute DCFC every day and log all my stats from LeafSpy and then make a decision whether to keep on that pace or just give up and dial it back.

Degradation doesn't appear to be linear. https://pushevs.com/2018/03/20/nissan-leaf-battery-degradation-data-24-vs-30-kwh-batteries/

Seems that degradation accelerates, which works in your favor for a battery replacement. However, the loss of capacity in the first year often is higher than expected. It's likely there's variation between packs and the BMS has to learn the capacity by using it. So there are a lot of assumptions here. If you're right, you get a new pack. If you're wrong, you don't and you end up with a pack more degraded than properly taking care of it (plus time wasted visiting charging stations).

Good luck!
 
Physically speaking; Your rate of degradation should increase since you effectively have a smaller pack which will have to work harder to cover the same distance. You will have to charge to a higher SOC, have less flexibility for on the road charging, etc.

Realistically speaking; The Nissan BMS is not giving us a realistic expectation of degradation rates at this point. I also had fast degradation initially to the point where my planned announcement of 8% loss (1/12th capacity) for this past Spring has been put off. The Summer driving season, although not as severe as last Summer didn't really do anything to the pack. the first 3rd of October is my next adjustment so we shall have to see what happens then.
 
sthbeach said:
That's what I thought too, Lefty.
So a 20 minute DCFC a day will not keep the doctor away!
If your goal is to degrade the pack, you might need a combination of factors to generate enough sustained heat. Especially in a colder climate (noted was using metric measurements). Mine is driven in similar climate conditions. Driving it fast & hard on a hotter summer day might produce battery temps in the low 100’s F. Did a long 50-minute DCFC last week that produced similar peak temps. charging from @ 20% to 95%. Might need both combined to do real damage.

Should also add that my usage profile and monthly mileage is likely similar. I’m anticipating hitting the 100k mile battery warranty mark at slightly under 5 years. My own guesstimate is somewhere in the low 80% SOH when that happens. Only time will tell.
 
The value reported as SOH will go down and up over the course of the year. You cannot extrapolate a few months of changes into how it will look multiple years later.
 
jlv said:
The value reported as SOH will go down and up over the course of the year. You cannot extrapolate a few months of changes into how it will look multiple years later.

Newer cars seem to not adjust the same as older cars.

My 2014 I can drive the SOH up from 90 to over 100 in a few days by doing specific things driving and charging.
Or drive the SOH down to 87 in a few days by doing different things driving and charging.
When I go back to "normal", the SOH returns to normal.
 
If anyone has a chance at a free battery its probably me. Not only does the warranty start when you buy - so it started for me after the car had already degraded sitting around for a year. But also i live in a hot climate.

As of this am it's going through its second big three month drop and I'm at soh 93.73% and it's not done with the big adjustment yet.

So I'm about 5 months into the warranty and it's the 93% already.

Of course I'm not yet convinced this is a real SOH.
 
danrjones said:
If anyone has a chance at a free battery its probably me. Not only does the warranty start when you buy - so it started for me after the car had already degraded sitting around for a year. But also i live in a hot climate.

As of this am it's going through its second big three month drop and I'm at soh 93.73% and it's not done with the big adjustment yet.

So I'm about 5 months into the warranty and it's the 93% already.

Of course I'm not yet convinced this is a real SOH.

Yeah, join the club. Guess what? Doesn't matter where you live because people all over the World are seeing the EXACT same thing you are on the EXACT same time schedule.

What was your starting SOH?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
If anyone has a chance at a free battery its probably me. Not only does the warranty start when you buy - so it started for me after the car had already degraded sitting around for a year. But also i live in a hot climate.

As of this am it's going through its second big three month drop and I'm at soh 93.73% and it's not done with the big adjustment yet.

So I'm about 5 months into the warranty and it's the 93% already.

Of course I'm not yet convinced this is a real SOH.

Yeah, join the club. Guess what? Doesn't matter where you live because people all over the World are seeing the EXACT same thing you are on the EXACT same time schedule.

What was your starting SOH?

So I drove it home beginning of may and it was at 97.63% after sitting around for nearly a year on the dealers lot. But a month after I got it it went through its first big drop.

I post the data in the 40 battery thread.
 
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
If anyone has a chance at a free battery its probably me. Not only does the warranty start when you buy - so it started for me after the car had already degraded sitting around for a year. But also i live in a hot climate.

As of this am it's going through its second big three month drop and I'm at soh 93.73% and it's not done with the big adjustment yet.

So I'm about 5 months into the warranty and it's the 93% already.

Of course I'm not yet convinced this is a real SOH.

Yeah, join the club. Guess what? Doesn't matter where you live because people all over the World are seeing the EXACT same thing you are on the EXACT same time schedule.

What was your starting SOH?

So I drove it home beginning of may and it was at 97.63% after sitting around for nearly a year on the dealers lot. But a month after I got it it went through its first big drop.

I post the data in the 40 battery thread.

Interesting. Even when sitting, its degradation curve is practically the same as mine. What was build date?
 
Good question. I know I looked before but don't recall. Early 2018 i think. I know it had literally been sitting on the lot for a year. I knew it and got a great price because of that.

I'm about 200 miles from it but can check when I get home tonight. Door jam?
 
danrjones said:
Good question. I know I looked before but don't recall. Early 2018 i think. I know it had literally been sitting on the lot for a year. I knew it and got a great price because of that.

I'm about 200 miles from it but can check when I get home tonight. Door jam?

yep on the door. Bottom sticker, first line MM/YY
 
When did they start rolling off the line? I wonder then how long it took to get to the dealers lot. So it may have been sitting for more than a year.

But the warranty starts when bought.
 
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