DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2589
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:27 pm

Latest theory/hypothesis. If the BMS really holds a buffer, then I wouldn't expect the Gen 2 Leafs to show a lost bar until a few (somewhere between 2 and 6) % below 85% SoH in the GOM.

That might explain why we have many 2018 Leafs around 85% SoH and yet not many/any which have lost a bar.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2589
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:33 pm

If you look at the graphs in the video, I feel like they pretty similarly mirror what we see in the Pluses. A 7% drop in the first year and the a flattened line.

https://youtu.be/rYkS9AUIYjY
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:09 pm

Interesting video. It appears that my SL+ is doing as well as the Model 3 since current "Gid" reading at full charge is 96.30% of new, current AHr reading is 94.43% of new, and current SOH reading is 94.44% of new after 17 months and 25,707 miles of use.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:04 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:09 pm
Interesting video. It appears that my SL+ is doing as well as the Model 3 since current "Gid" reading at full charge is 96.30% of new, current AHr reading is 94.43% of new, and current SOH reading is 94.44% of new after 17 months and 25,707 miles of use.
My Model 3 is at 101% of new at 30 months old.

There does seem to be mounting evidence that the + models are doing better than the smaller packs. Since I expected them to do worse and that is increasingly unlikely to be true, I'm happy to say I guessed wrong. It is irony that when Nissan finally made a passive pack that was not crap, they gave up and joined the active thermal control crowd. I presume it is an acknowledgement that 50 - 75 kW charging is not competitive.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

alozzy
Posts: 1871
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:20 pm

This video details a repaired bad module on a 40 kWh pack, on a LEAF that's used as a taxi (120,000 miles and over 1200 DC quick charges!)

https://youtu.be/-ySOspbt0BM

At the 1:53 timestamp, the physical bulging of the modules in the back of the pack are very telling. It really underscores how much heat DC quick charging produces within the pack and how woefully inadequate passive cooling is!
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2589
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:31 am

I thought it was impressive that the other buckled cells hadn't failed. Running a cab on a 40 is quite the duty load.

Guessing the uber drivers with the 62 pack do better as they don't need to do nearly as many DC cycles during a normal day.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15566
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:48 am

SageBrush wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:04 pm
GerryAZ wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:09 pm
Interesting video. It appears that my SL+ is doing as well as the Model 3 since current "Gid" reading at full charge is 96.30% of new, current AHr reading is 94.43% of new, and current SOH reading is 94.44% of new after 17 months and 25,707 miles of use.
My Model 3 is at 101% of new at 30 months old.

There does seem to be mounting evidence that the + models are doing better than the smaller packs. Since I expected them to do worse and that is increasingly unlikely to be true, I'm happy to say I guessed wrong. It is irony that when Nissan finally made a passive pack that was not crap, they gave up and joined the active thermal control crowd. I presume it is an acknowledgement that 50 - 75 kW charging is not competitive.
Its all about workload. Huge difference between 192 hands verses 288 hands. We do have the sliver segment who roadtrip enough to complain about DC charging speed (which means once every other year :roll: ) but other than that, the Plus has turned out to be a fairly good compromise on price, range and performance.

Still, it is early and I think the key lies in how many miles will most of us have when the "good" range drops below 200 miles which seems to be the line that most people judge?

As far as the thermal thing? I am not sure if its all about EA's decision to marginalize Chademo or Nissan thinking faster charging speeds are needed? Most of the country doesn't have stations that provide more than 125 amps on Chademo so its like "am I missing something I don't know about?" question.

But the more telling thing is range. The Plus allows me to negate charging speed because I simply charge to the knee and go so I don't see the slow DC speeds because that is range I don't need.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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SageBrush
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:34 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:48 am
I am not sure if its all about EA's decision to marginalize Chademo or Nissan thinking faster charging speeds are needed?
So far Nissan has given no hint of continuing LEAF with CCS. They may yet change their minds but for now it looks to me like a decision based on LEAF peak charging speed and related rapidgate and coldgate issues.

---
I'll make a prediction:
In the same way that you never missed range until you got more,
you do not miss faster charging, until you get more.

---
A few minutes ago I was planning a 366 mile trip from home to Aspen, CO in our Tesla Model 3. One stop, under 10 minutes of charging. It occurred to me that other than curiosity, there was no reason to plan at all. Just go.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5999
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:37 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:48 am
SageBrush wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:04 pm
GerryAZ wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:09 pm
Interesting video. It appears that my SL+ is doing as well as the Model 3 since current "Gid" reading at full charge is 96.30% of new, current AHr reading is 94.43% of new, and current SOH reading is 94.44% of new after 17 months and 25,707 miles of use.
My Model 3 is at 101% of new at 30 months old.

There does seem to be mounting evidence that the + models are doing better than the smaller packs. Since I expected them to do worse and that is increasingly unlikely to be true, I'm happy to say I guessed wrong. It is irony that when Nissan finally made a passive pack that was not crap, they gave up and joined the active thermal control crowd. I presume it is an acknowledgement that 50 - 75 kW charging is not competitive.
Its all about workload. Huge difference between 192 hands verses 288 hands.
That helps by lowering pack resistance (increasing pack from 2P to 3P) but I doubt it is most of the story. After all, lower capacity packs degrade just sitting on dealer lots, and we are all familiar with the observation that age is a lot more important that usage in determining degradation rate.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16648
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:20 pm

After all, lower capacity packs degrade just sitting on dealer lots, and we are all familiar with the observation that age is a lot more important that usage in determining degradation rate.
This isn't always the case. Lizard packs seem to not be degrading all that much by age.
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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