Triggerhappy007
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:54 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:38 am
Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:03 pm
The Prius Prime isn't much better at 25 miles.
It is vastly better, but Merkins cannot figure out basic arithmetic.
I mean compared to competitors in 2016-2017. The Volt had 53 miles EV and Clarity had 47 miles EV.
2019 Leaf SL ProPilot
2020 Pacifica Hybrid Limited AST

LeftieBiker
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:57 pm

As I've mentioned before, the Prime, like the PIP before it, does an excellent job of functioning as a high-MPG hybrid when the charge is depleted, unlike the higher AER Volt and Outlander (does the Outlander have a higher AER?). That makes it a more economical car for trips of more than 90 miles or so.
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SageBrush
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:13 pm

Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:54 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:38 am
Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:03 pm
The Prius Prime isn't much better at 25 miles.
It is vastly better, but Merkins cannot figure out basic arithmetic.
I mean compared to competitors in 2016-2017. The Volt had 53 miles EV and Clarity had 47 miles EV.
Clarity is a compliance car and the Volt is dead. Part of the reason is that those large batteries along with an ICE make for too expensive a car (clarity) or too small a cabin and too expensive (Volt)

But to the point, the Prius Prime consumes ~ 160 mpg over the average 40 mile commute. The marginal reduction in fossil fuel use from adding more battery is small by the time the Prime range is exceeded. Going back to that pesky arithmetic:

ICE over 40 miles @ 25 mpg: 1.6 gallons
Prime over 40 miles: 0.25 gallons, 1.35 gallons saved
50 mile PHEV: 0 gallons, 0.25 more gallons saved

Prime has saved 1.35/1.6 = 85% of the ICE consumption using half the battery. As an optimization question balancing price, utility and fossil use reduction the Prius Prime nails it.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2196
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:31 pm

I think the Outlander only made sence if your usually daily drive was under 20 miles, and wanted/needed 4WD with the occasional longer trip (at a horrendous mpg). 7 years ago, there were not too many plug in/EV choices that gave you 4WD and electric propulsion for under 40K USD. The sad part is that they never really evolved the car, and could have really done wonders for the Mitsubishi brand if they ran with their market leadership in the space. Heck, it still sells in pretty large numbers in Europe, though now has many competitors with more range and better efficiency.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
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Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

LeftieBiker
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:34 pm

Part of the reason is that those large batteries along with an ICE make for too expensive a car (clarity) or too small a cabin and too expensive (Volt)
The Volt's cabin isn't cramped because of the batteries. It's cramped because the original Volt show car was a Camaro show car with a golfcart drivetrain, and some idiot at GM decided they wanted to keep the 'stepped on by Godzilla' look'. Had they made the Volt a CUV it would have been a runaway success.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5380
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:03 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:34 pm
Had they made the Volt a CUV it would have been a runaway success.
Uh huh

Hurry up and submit your resume for CEO. Mary is wed to NKLA so you may actually be an improvement.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:05 pm

Have you ever considered a job as a reviewer who always pans everything that isn't really expensive?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2196
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:09 pm

Interesting, this video shows that the m3 has a somewhat similar reserve to the Leaf, though i think it was adopted later. It also has a kind of turtlish message warning of battery damage.

https://youtu.be/QFj6OtTlAkw
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15156
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:49 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:27 am
I am becoming more convinced that the Leaf is staying in the Nissan lineup for at least a few more years. They are continuing to expand markets for the car (Phillipines in 2021, Leaf Plus in Australia in 21) which doesn't seem like what you would do with an end of life car. While too late for us in this round of car buying, it would be very competively helpful if they added thermal mgmt. to the car for 21, even if just forced air cooled like Lexus.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thedriven. ... -2021/amp/

I also saw Germany sold over 300 Leafs last month for the first time in almost 2 years (likely due to super cheap leases).
Why did you think otherwise? The Ariya is a completely different vehicle class.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2196
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:08 am

A thermal managed 2021 Leaf could explain the fire sale on the 2019 and 2020 Leafs.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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