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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:54 pm
by Triggerhappy007
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:38 am
Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:03 pm
The Prius Prime isn't much better at 25 miles.
It is vastly better, but Merkins cannot figure out basic arithmetic.
I mean compared to competitors in 2016-2017. The Volt had 53 miles EV and Clarity had 47 miles EV.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:57 pm
by LeftieBiker
As I've mentioned before, the Prime, like the PIP before it, does an excellent job of functioning as a high-MPG hybrid when the charge is depleted, unlike the higher AER Volt and Outlander (does the Outlander have a higher AER?). That makes it a more economical car for trips of more than 90 miles or so.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:13 pm
by SageBrush
Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:54 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:38 am
Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:03 pm
The Prius Prime isn't much better at 25 miles.
It is vastly better, but Merkins cannot figure out basic arithmetic.
I mean compared to competitors in 2016-2017. The Volt had 53 miles EV and Clarity had 47 miles EV.
Clarity is a compliance car and the Volt is dead. Part of the reason is that those large batteries along with an ICE make for too expensive a car (clarity) or too small a cabin and too expensive (Volt)

But to the point, the Prius Prime consumes ~ 160 mpg over the average 40 mile commute. The marginal reduction in fossil fuel use from adding more battery is small by the time the Prime range is exceeded. Going back to that pesky arithmetic:

ICE over 40 miles @ 25 mpg: 1.6 gallons
Prime over 40 miles: 0.25 gallons, 1.35 gallons saved
50 mile PHEV: 0 gallons, 0.25 more gallons saved

Prime has saved 1.35/1.6 = 85% of the ICE consumption using half the battery. As an optimization question balancing price, utility and fossil use reduction the Prius Prime nails it.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:31 pm
by DougWantsALeaf
I think the Outlander only made sence if your usually daily drive was under 20 miles, and wanted/needed 4WD with the occasional longer trip (at a horrendous mpg). 7 years ago, there were not too many plug in/EV choices that gave you 4WD and electric propulsion for under 40K USD. The sad part is that they never really evolved the car, and could have really done wonders for the Mitsubishi brand if they ran with their market leadership in the space. Heck, it still sells in pretty large numbers in Europe, though now has many competitors with more range and better efficiency.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:34 pm
by LeftieBiker
Part of the reason is that those large batteries along with an ICE make for too expensive a car (clarity) or too small a cabin and too expensive (Volt)
The Volt's cabin isn't cramped because of the batteries. It's cramped because the original Volt show car was a Camaro show car with a golfcart drivetrain, and some idiot at GM decided they wanted to keep the 'stepped on by Godzilla' look'. Had they made the Volt a CUV it would have been a runaway success.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:03 pm
by SageBrush
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:34 pm
Had they made the Volt a CUV it would have been a runaway success.
Uh huh

Hurry up and submit your resume for CEO. Mary is wed to NKLA so you may actually be an improvement.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:05 pm
by LeftieBiker
Have you ever considered a job as a reviewer who always pans everything that isn't really expensive?

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:09 pm
by DougWantsALeaf
Interesting, this video shows that the m3 has a somewhat similar reserve to the Leaf, though i think it was adopted later. It also has a kind of turtlish message warning of battery damage.

https://youtu.be/QFj6OtTlAkw

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:49 am
by DaveinOlyWA
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:27 am
I am becoming more convinced that the Leaf is staying in the Nissan lineup for at least a few more years. They are continuing to expand markets for the car (Phillipines in 2021, Leaf Plus in Australia in 21) which doesn't seem like what you would do with an end of life car. While too late for us in this round of car buying, it would be very competively helpful if they added thermal mgmt. to the car for 21, even if just forced air cooled like Lexus.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thedriven. ... -2021/amp/

I also saw Germany sold over 300 Leafs last month for the first time in almost 2 years (likely due to super cheap leases).
Why did you think otherwise? The Ariya is a completely different vehicle class.

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:08 am
by DougWantsALeaf
A thermal managed 2021 Leaf could explain the fire sale on the 2019 and 2020 Leafs.