GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2748
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:35 pm

My statistics have been stable for the last few charges instead of slight AHr, SOH, and Hx drops each charge (probably due to cooler temperatures). As of last night: AHr=165.97, SOH=94.09%, Hx=100.23%, V=329.44, QC=8, L1/L2=166, GIDs=53, and ODO=24,367. Battery temperatures were 69.8, 71.6, and 72.5 F last night and 67.3, 69.4, and 69.4 F this morning. This morning after charging V=402.71 and GIDs=704. The next 3-month update should be about January 20th.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2335
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:24 pm

Thats great. Glad the battery is doing well.


What does the board think about the raft of 200-250ish mile EVs now in market with 65-75 kWh batteries? (Mach-E, ID4, Volvo Recharge, Etc..) Do you think it's enough for the US market. I know now that we have moved to 200ish mile evs, we don't talk about range anymore in the household, and conversation has now moved to seating, comfort, etc.. in terms of our next EV. ...but we are not a typical household having an ev for the last 8 years.

Is 300 still the needed bar, or is 200 enough? I am of the mind that 200ish might be enough.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

dmacarthur
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:35 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:24 pm
Thats great. Glad the battery is doing well.


What does the board think about the raft of 200-250ish mile EVs now in market with 65-75 kWh batteries? (Mach-E, ID4, Volvo Recharge, Etc..) Do you think it's enough for the US market. I know now that we have moved to 200ish mile evs, we don't talk about range anymore in the household, and conversation has now moved to seating, comfort, etc.. in terms of our next EV. ...but we are not a typical household having an ev for the last 8 years.

Is 300 still the needed bar, or is 200 enough? I am of the mind that 200ish might be enough.
I am in agreement that 200ish is plenty for MOST of what we will do- however, this is after 9 months of lockdown and after having moved up to a Plus from a 2015 which definitely was inadequate..... Hard to remember what it felt like to jump in a cfar a drive for 6 hours with one quick stop for gas.....
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:40 pm

I think 200ish is adequate to entice households with more than one vehicle to use an EV for one of their vehicles. For households to be comfortable with an EV as an only vehicle (or multiple vehicles all EV), then it probably takes 300 miles or more range (even though they probably don't actually need it). Personally, I would not want to depend upon the SL Plus as my only vehicle because I need something to tow trailers and handle off-road conditions. I also like my motorcycles for recreational riding and long trips.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:54 pm

In the Castrol survey I've linked elsewhere, on what it would take for BEVs to be mainstream, for the U. S. the average range requirement was 517 km (321 mi.), and you can bet that's assuming ICE-like infrastructure and capabilities, i.e. no reductions for degradation, heat use, charging to 80 rather than 100%, charging stations ubiquitous and fast, etc.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
Posts: 4129
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:24 am

GRA wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:54 pm
In the Castrol survey I've linked elsewhere, on what it would take for BEVs to be mainstream, for the U. S. the average range requirement was 517 km (321 mi.), and you can bet that's assuming ICE-like infrastructure and capabilities, i.e. no reductions for degradation, heat use, charging to 80 rather than 100%, charging stations ubiquitous and fast, etc.
Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.

There might be some real information in some of the answers.

Don't count on much.

Even then, the world is changing. With more people working from home, driving patterns are going to change. I can't even guess if that helps or hurts EV adoption long term.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:07 pm

WetEV wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:24 am
GRA wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:54 pm
In the Castrol survey I've linked elsewhere, on what it would take for BEVs to be mainstream, for the U. S. the average range requirement was 517 km (321 mi.), and you can bet that's assuming ICE-like infrastructure and capabilities, i.e. no reductions for degradation, heat use, charging to 80 rather than 100%, charging stations ubiquitous and fast, etc.
Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.

There might be some real information in some of the answers.

Don't count on much.

Even then, the world is changing. With more people working from home, driving patterns are going to change. I can't even guess if that helps or hurts EV adoption long term.

Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.

In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
Posts: 4129
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:22 am

GRA wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:07 pm
WetEV wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:24 am
Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.

There might be some real information in some of the answers.

Don't count on much.
Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.

In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
People that don't know can't give an answer that is meaningful.

BEVs have advantages over their ICEs that they really can't know anything about. You are asking them to compare a sketch of a BEV with all they know about ICE cars.

Now, there might be some real information in some of the answers. But you can't take the whole answer as factual, as it isn't.

Two decades from now, the once 9 year old boys might know more about sex. And the ICE drivers are likely to be driving BEVs.

Still, answers are likely to not be completely factual. Even then.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15298
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:03 am

WetEV wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:22 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:07 pm
WetEV wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:24 am
Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.

There might be some real information in some of the answers.

Don't count on much.
Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.

In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
People that don't know can't give an answer that is meaningful.

BEVs have advantages over their ICEs that they really can't know anything about. You are asking them to compare a sketch of a BEV with all they know about ICE cars.

Now, there might be some real information in some of the answers. But you can't take the whole answer as factual, as it isn't.

Two decades from now, the once 9 year old boys might know more about sex. And the ICE drivers are likely to be driving BEVs.

Still, answers are likely to not be completely factual. Even then.
Have to agree at least partially. To move from the familiar to the unfamiliar, the standards have to be near perfect; which isn't possible. But that is how we roll. We'd rather suffer the pain we know than learn a new way. It is by word of mouth from friends and family that eventually "talk us off the ledge" which brings our requirements to reasonable levels.

A more telling poll is how many try EVs and then go back to gassers. Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero.

So no, the polls won't ever be as effective as your neighbor or your sibling.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
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LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:13 pm

A more telling poll is how many try EVs and then go back to gassers. Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero.
I think there are a significant number of people who either get lied to about range, or who drive 80MPH and then give up the EV because it won't go far enough at that speed.
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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