DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15298
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:58 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:24 pm
Hey, one thought appeared to me looking at the data. Any chance battery temp at time of adjustment has an impact? My summer adjustments have been more favorable than the winter adjustments.
umm, hmm?? that wouldn't make any sense. Batteries don't just "adjust" suddenly. Its the BMS doing the adjusting and one would have to think the adjustment is a report card of sorts (along with normal degradation) of the previous 3 months? At least that would somewhat explain the increased capacity which still isn't realistically possible.

FYI; my positive adjustment was in July.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:35 pm

WetEV wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:22 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:07 pm
WetEV wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:24 am
Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.

There might be some real information in some of the answers.

Don't count on much.
Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.

In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
People that don't know can't give an answer that is meaningful.

BEVs have advantages over their ICEs that they really can't know anything about. You are asking them to compare a sketch of a BEV with all they know about ICE cars.

Now, there might be some real information in some of the answers. But you can't take the whole answer as factual, as it isn't.

Two decades from now, the once 9 year old boys might know more about sex. And the ICE drivers are likely to be driving BEVs.

Still, answers are likely to not be completely factual. Even then.

Your analogy of asking 9 yr.olds about sex is inapt. After all, the adult general public has lots of experience with sex, and using ICEs as transport, its basic function. Sticking with sex, a more apt analogy would be surveying heterosexuals on what it would take for them to become homosexuals. Gays and bisexuals could point out undeniable advantages like no worries about unintended pregnancies, better understanding of how their partner thinks due to being the same gender, and possible cost savings if the couple is about the same size and build, because they could share clothes :lol: Gay enthusiasts could also make harder to prove claims that the quality and/or quantity of gay sex is better, leading to stronger and/or more frequent orgasms.

None of these claims are likely to persuade many straights to switch, as most are perfectly satisfied with what they've got, and the actual or claimed advantages don't massively outweigh the disadvantages, whatever they perceive them to be.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:56 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:03 am

Have to agree at least partially. To move from the familiar to the unfamiliar, the standards have to be near perfect; which isn't possible. But that is how we roll. We'd rather suffer the pain we know than learn a new way. It is by word of mouth from friends and family that eventually "talk us off the ledge" which brings our requirements to reasonable levels.

A more telling poll is how many try EVs and then go back to gassers. Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero.

So no, the polls won't ever be as effective as your neighbor or your sibling.

Agreed, word of mouth will be more effective barring compulsion, but WoM tends to be very slow.

Re who goes back to gassers,
Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero
is a problem that no one driving an ICE has to worry about. And we're one of the most mobile societies on the planet, moving an average of 11.7 times in our lives per 2007 data.

Just to put this all into perspective, if it were possible to produce net-zero carbon drop-in liquid syn- or bio-fuels for use in existing ICEs, in the necessary volumes and at prices comparable to fossil fuels, would anyone other than a few cranks be discussing BEVs? Of course not.

BEVs and their infrastructure will continue to improve in both price and capability, and as they do so more and more people will adopt them, until a tipping point is reached. I think it is unrealistic to expect that point until BEVs have eliminated most of the operational disadvantages they currently face vis-a-vis ICEs, claims of overwhelming advantages by enthusiasts notwithstanding, unless they're simply banned from some areas, as is largely responsible for their rapid growth in China, or entirely.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
Posts: 4129
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:29 pm

GRA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:56 pm
Just to put this all into perspective, if it were possible to produce net-zero carbon drop-in liquid syn- or bio-fuels for use in existing ICEs, in the necessary volumes and at prices comparable to fossil fuels, would anyone other than a few cranks be discussing BEVs? Of course not.
BEVs would still be winning races, like Pike's Peak Hill Climb.

BEVs would still be quiet, responsive and quick in a way that ICE cars can never be.

BEVs would still "fuel" in the garage, and let me drive past gas stations. A real joy, especially when the temperature is 1C 34F, the wind is howling and the rain is coming down sideways.

So GRA, you are wrong.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

Triggerhappy007
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:39 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:50 pm
I laugh when I see posts bragging about "living on the edge" from people getting home with 2% SOC thinking they barely made it. :lol:
If you move on from the Leaf, don't try that in a Niro EV or this will happen:


https://youtu.be/QkviPRDkwqk
2020 Leaf Plus SV Tech & All Weather
2019 Leaf SL - traded in
2020 Pacifica Hybrid Limited AST

WetEV
Posts: 4129
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:44 pm

GRA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:35 pm
WetEV wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:22 am
People that don't know can't give an answer that is meaningful.

BEVs have advantages over their ICEs that they really can't know anything about. You are asking them to compare a sketch of a BEV with all they know about ICE cars.

Now, there might be some real information in some of the answers. But you can't take the whole answer as factual, as it isn't.

Two decades from now, the once 9 year old boys might know more about sex. And the ICE drivers are likely to be driving BEVs.

Still, answers are likely to not be completely factual. Even then.

Your analogy of asking 9 yr.olds about sex is inapt. After all, the adult general public has lots of experience with sex, and using ICEs as transport, its basic function. Sticking with sex, a more apt analogy would be surveying heterosexuals on what it would take for them to become homosexuals. Gays and bisexuals could point out undeniable advantages like no worries about unintended pregnancies, better understanding of how their partner thinks due to being the same gender, and possible cost savings if the couple is about the same size and build, because they could share clothes :lol: Gay enthusiasts could also make harder to prove claims that the quality and/or quantity of gay sex is better, leading to stronger and/or more frequent orgasms.

None of these claims are likely to persuade many straights to switch, as most are perfectly satisfied with what they've got, and the actual or claimed advantages don't massively outweigh the disadvantages, whatever they perceive them to be.
Your analogy fails at several levels.


First, much of sexual orientation is genetic, innate. What you want, sexually, depends on who you are, and you can't pretend to be something other than what you are and expect to be happy.

I can't think of anything in automotive that is like that. Even Ford Truck vs GM Truck seems to be mostly learned. I'll have to go look for twin studies of this. :roll:


The ratio between homosexual and heterosexuals has been fairly static since Classical Greek days.

EVs are doubling in use every 2-3 years. Not static.


I doubt if anything significant sexual has been invented since the fall of Rome. OK, maybe the battery powered vibrator. But not much else.

EV technology is showing steady progress in kWh/$, kWh/kg and more.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2335
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:47 pm

I saw that, very surprising. Niro also has starting appearing with some mechanical issues, so while I had wanted the Niro early on (prior to buying our first Plus), not sure I sweat it so much now.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15298
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:27 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:47 pm
I saw that, very surprising. Niro also has starting appearing with some mechanical issues, so while I had wanted the Niro early on (prior to buying our first Plus), not sure I sweat it so much now.
I had interest in the Niro based on press clippings that completely vanished after the car hit the streets. Its build quality is weak.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2335
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:27 pm

Indy Uber driver crosses 100K miles on his 2019 Leaf. Talk about getting value out of NC2C.

https://youtu.be/-6rBv-9P9b4
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15298
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:35 am

Can't find efficiency thread for some reason... Can't tell if its the phone or Fi or both. (no, this site is not out of the question)

But December as expected saw me under 4 miles/kwh barely. I am actually surprised I came as close as I did due to my higher average speed on my commuting but guessing climate control experimentation played a small part but ended the month going 810.2 miles @ 3.96 miles/kwh costing $19.86 or 2.45 cents/mile. That is a slight drop from last month despite higher utility rates which I calculated at 12.21 cents/kwh. Due to the rate change in the middle of the month, a straightforward calculation would have been tedious so I split the taxes, etc. 50/50 although my tier one/ tier two usage was 600/450. All my EV charging was tier two.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 15, 235.1mi, 93.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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