The 62kWh Battery Topic

[DougWantsALeaf]

Good point. The around the case, using the case as a heat sink, can't be more than mildly effective. I wager there is 0 passive airflow over the pack under the seats.

[SageBrush]

Good point. The around the case, using the case as a heat sink, can't be more than mildly effective. I wager there is 0 passive airflow over the pack under the seats.

I'm not familiar with the Lexus but I did own the Toyota Prime PHEV which is likely quite similar. The air cooling was not just ambient -- it used cabin air. I can remember agreeing to a setting that cooled the battery down with A/C before starting L2 charging.

I still think it is fine engineering for a PHEV, but not for a BEV where you want quick and high capacity thermal control for things like (rapid) fast charging.

Check out the Tesla thermal control system with a well integrated octovalve and heat pump. It is crazy good engineering. Some of Bjorn Nyland's tests show almost no winter range penalty (it is a ymmv, mostly depending on trip specifics.) You gotta love an EV that takes the excess heat from a Supercharge stop and uses it to keeps the cabin nice and comfortable.

[SageBrush]

the Video is fairly complimentary to the Leaf.

LOL !!

Let me paraphrase for you:
Even at 40 kW and in the the.Artic.Circle in the winter, the LEAF overheats
One can manage OK if charging stops include sitting down to eat a reindeer.

[dmacarthur]

I will agree that the Leaf is not a Tesla, and Bjorn is VERY complimentary of the Tesla trip he took, but the Leaf is perfect for my needs and I am wagering that its lifetime costs will be less than a Teslas, given my use and needs.

[Learjet]

One other point of note. In Bjorn's video look at the temperature spread between the temp sensors. 15+C, which is huge. I have never seen anything close to that on my car post DC sessions. Its the front cells getting quickly chilled and the underseat cells staying toasty warm.

Someone needs to find a way to get just a little airflow up there.

Amazing what a bit of airflow can do. The Soul EV vents passenger air to the battery pack with assist of a fan and it makes a huge difference in batt temps. Seems like an easy cheap fix?...

The cells are packed so tight...I have a feeling the outer cells might be helped and cooled by a fan...but the ones in the middle of the stack would still suffer.

After 10 months and almost 9,000 miles ...no heat issues here...but I only DC fast charged once...just to try i out. I've been all L2 keeping it between 20%-80% charge...most of the time between 30%and 70%....about every month or so 100% then immediate long trip.

My car is coming up on 2 years from the build date...I'll check Leaf spy at the end of the month and report.

[SageBrush]

I will agree that the Leaf is not a Tesla, and Bjorn is VERY complimentary of the Tesla trip he took, but the Leaf is perfect for my needs and I am wagering that its lifetime costs will be less than a Teslas, given my use and needs.

I don't doubt for a moment that a new LEAF can be good value given the right context, but that context is pretty narrow:

1. LEAF bought on the cheap
2. Another ICE is not owned to cover the LEAFs limitations
3. In general, LEAF not placed in warm+ climate
4. Consumer demands of the LEAF does not take a jump up
5. No reliance on FC network
6. Consumer bought enough battery reserve to cover 2 sigma degradation for 10 years
7. Clear intent to keep the LEAF until EOL to avoid depreciation

OK ... until we remember what fraction of the buying population do not have a clue what most of the above is about and +/- decide based on a low monthly payment and then rationalize a poor choice as they learn the LEAFs limits and issues.

-----

As an aside, I personally find (6) to be easier said than to live with. While our LEAF meets the criterion, I still find it unsettling to watch the battery degrade by the month. Just the fact that I (and others here) check our batteries so often says something quite negative about the LEAF. In a way, it is an admission of doubt. And on some days, I cannot help but wonder if the entire exercise does not have a taint of masochism to it. After all, when it comes down to it, a car is an appliance and not a lifestyle. Starting every month off with a lash of bad news cannot be good for the soul.

[dmacarthur]

As an aside, I personally find (6) to be easier said than to live with. While our LEAF meets the criterion, I still find it unsettling to watch the battery degrade by the month. Just the fact that I (and others here) check our batteries so often says something quite negative about the LEAF. In a way, it is an admission of doubt. And on some days, I cannot help but wonder if the entire exercise does not have a taint of masochism to it. After all, when it comes down to it, a car is an appliance and not a lifestyle. Starting every month off with a lash of bad news cannot be good for the soul.
[/quote]

...why I don't look at battery health on LeafSpy! the national news has been bad enough to satisfy my innate masochistic tendency....... I will probably start to watch more when a) the national and international news gets better, and b) when the 62 kw battery pack starts to degrade such that it is noticeable.

[dmacarthur]

PS to prove what a klutz I am, I still can not figure out how to quote only a portion of a previous message......

[LeftieBiker]

PS to prove what a klutz I am, I still can not figure out how to quote only a portion of a previous message......

Copy and paste that portion, highlight it, select the Quote option from the editing options.

[SageBrush]

PS to prove what a klutz I am, I still can not figure out how to quote only a portion of a previous message......

If you just want text in quotes, follow Lefty's advice.
If you want to attribute the quote (Lefty said ..), you have to leave the attribution intact. I learned by editing my own posts that had attributions from others since the HTML is intact and can be studied.

----
You only have to remember that quotes are in pairs: an open quote tag (with or without attribution)

Code: Select all

 [quote] 

always ends with a closing quote tag

Code: Select all

 [/quote] 

Lefty's advice results in this:

Code: Select all

[quote]
text
[/quote]

Quoted text with attribution has this pattern:

Code: Select all

[quote= <name> post_id=<number> time=<number> user_id=<number>]
text
[/quote]

Pretty easy to follow until you see nested quotes because the forum software does not know how to indent code to help identify the pairs. Imagine a quoted text, inside someone else's quoted text, inside someone elses quoted text. There will be three pairs of quote tags. The first and last tags are a pair, the second and second to last tags are a pair, and the middle tags are a pair.

When you respond to a post, your text should not be inside any quote tags. Sometimes the forum software tries to be helpful (I think when an unbalanced tag is present) by inserting a closing quote tag at the end of the post that includes your new text. That tag has to be deleted, and the unbalanced tag either deleted or be given its partner in the right place. You always have the choice to either click an editing button for tags or just write them yourself.