DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:55 am

Good point. The around the case, using the case as a heat sink, can't be more than mildly effective. I wager there is 0 passive airflow over the pack under the seats.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:16 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:55 am
Good point. The around the case, using the case as a heat sink, can't be more than mildly effective. I wager there is 0 passive airflow over the pack under the seats.
I'm not familiar with the Lexus but I did own the Toyota Prime PHEV which is likely quite similar. The air cooling was not just ambient -- it used cabin air. I can remember agreeing to a setting that cooled the battery down with A/C before starting L2 charging.

I still think it is fine engineering for a PHEV, but not for a BEV where you want quick and high capacity thermal control for things like (rapid) fast charging.

Check out the Tesla thermal control system with a well integrated octovalve and heat pump. It is crazy good engineering. Some of Bjorn Nyland's tests show almost no winter range penalty (it is a ymmv, mostly depending on trip specifics.) You gotta love an EV that takes the excess heat from a Supercharge stop and uses it to keeps the cabin nice and comfortable.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:33 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:56 pm
the Video is fairly complimentary to the Leaf.
LOL !!

Let me paraphrase for you:
Even at 40 kW and in the the.Artic.Circle in the winter, the LEAF overheats
One can manage OK if charging stops include sitting down to eat a reindeer.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

dmacarthur
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:47 pm

I will agree that the Leaf is not a Tesla, and Bjorn is VERY complimentary of the Tesla trip he took, but the Leaf is perfect for my needs and I am wagering that its lifetime costs will be less than a Teslas, given my use and needs.
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

Learjet
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Mar 2020
Leaf Number: 309454
Location: Louisiana, USA

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:20 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:45 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:13 pm
One other point of note. In Bjorn's video look at the temperature spread between the temp sensors. 15+C, which is huge. I have never seen anything close to that on my car post DC sessions. Its the front cells getting quickly chilled and the underseat cells staying toasty warm.

Someone needs to find a way to get just a little airflow up there.
Amazing what a bit of airflow can do. The Soul EV vents passenger air to the battery pack with assist of a fan and it makes a huge difference in batt temps. Seems like an easy cheap fix?...
The cells are packed so tight...I have a feeling the outer cells might be helped and cooled by a fan...but the ones in the middle of the stack would still suffer.

After 10 months and almost 9,000 miles ...no heat issues here...but I only DC fast charged once...just to try i out. I've been all L2 keeping it between 20%-80% charge...most of the time between 30%and 70%....about every month or so 100% then immediate long trip.

My car is coming up on 2 years from the build date...I'll check Leaf spy at the end of the month and report.
2019 Nissan Leaf SL Plus

SageBrush
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:36 am

dmacarthur wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:47 pm
I will agree that the Leaf is not a Tesla, and Bjorn is VERY complimentary of the Tesla trip he took, but the Leaf is perfect for my needs and I am wagering that its lifetime costs will be less than a Teslas, given my use and needs.
I don't doubt for a moment that a new LEAF can be good value given the right context, but that context is pretty narrow:

1. LEAF bought on the cheap
2. Another ICE is not owned to cover the LEAFs limitations
3. In general, LEAF not placed in warm+ climate
4. Consumer demands of the LEAF does not take a jump up
5. No reliance on FC network
6. Consumer bought enough battery reserve to cover 2 sigma degradation for 10 years
7. Clear intent to keep the LEAF until EOL to avoid depreciation

OK ... until we remember what fraction of the buying population do not have a clue what most of the above is about and +/- decide based on a low monthly payment and then rationalize a poor choice as they learn the LEAFs limits and issues.

-----

As an aside, I personally find (6) to be easier said than to live with. While our LEAF meets the criterion, I still find it unsettling to watch the battery degrade by the month. Just the fact that I (and others here) check our batteries so often says something quite negative about the LEAF. In a way, it is an admission of doubt. And on some days, I cannot help but wonder if the entire exercise does not have a taint of masochism to it. After all, when it comes down to it, a car is an appliance and not a lifestyle. Starting every month off with a lash of bad news cannot be good for the soul.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

dmacarthur
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:06 am

As an aside, I personally find (6) to be easier said than to live with. While our LEAF meets the criterion, I still find it unsettling to watch the battery degrade by the month. Just the fact that I (and others here) check our batteries so often says something quite negative about the LEAF. In a way, it is an admission of doubt. And on some days, I cannot help but wonder if the entire exercise does not have a taint of masochism to it. After all, when it comes down to it, a car is an appliance and not a lifestyle. Starting every month off with a lash of bad news cannot be good for the soul.
[/quote]

...why I don't look at battery health on LeafSpy! the national news has been bad enough to satisfy my innate masochistic tendency....... I will probably start to watch more when a) the national and international news gets better, and b) when the 62 kw battery pack starts to degrade such that it is noticeable.
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

dmacarthur
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:07 am

PS to prove what a klutz I am, I still can not figure out how to quote only a portion of a previous message......
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:17 am

dmacarthur wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:07 am
PS to prove what a klutz I am, I still can not figure out how to quote only a portion of a previous message......
Copy and paste that portion, highlight it, select the Quote option from the editing options.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:32 am

dmacarthur wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:07 am
PS to prove what a klutz I am, I still can not figure out how to quote only a portion of a previous message......
If you just want text in quotes, follow Lefty's advice.
If you want to attribute the quote (Lefty said ..), you have to leave the attribution intact. I learned by editing my own posts that had attributions from others since the HTML is intact and can be studied.

----
You only have to remember that quotes are in pairs: an open quote tag (with or without attribution)

Code: Select all

 [quote] 
always ends with a closing quote tag

Code: Select all

 [/quote] 


Lefty's advice results in this:

Code: Select all

[quote]
text
[/quote]
Quoted text with attribution has this pattern:

Code: Select all

[quote= <name> post_id=<number> time=<number> user_id=<number>]
text
[/quote]

Pretty easy to follow until you see nested quotes because the forum software does not know how to indent code to help identify the pairs. Imagine a quoted text, inside someone else's quoted text, inside someone elses quoted text. There will be three pairs of quote tags. The first and last tags are a pair, the second and second to last tags are a pair, and the middle tags are a pair.

When you respond to a post, your text should not be inside any quote tags. Sometimes the forum software tries to be helpful (I think when an unbalanced tag is present) by inserting a closing quote tag at the end of the post that includes your new text. That tag has to be deleted, and the unbalanced tag either deleted or be given its partner in the right place. You always have the choice to either click an editing button for tags or just write them yourself.
Last edited by SageBrush on Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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