dmacarthur
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:28 pm

Wow! can I
quote
you on that! thanks!
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:08 pm

Never mind
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:58 pm

Sage

While I agree with your Leaf value statements in terms of use case (mainly sub 200 mile journeys, limited DC needs, highly discounted purchase+fed credit, no additional ICE needs, etc..) as the sweet spot for the Leaf Plus, I continue to see evidence showing the M3 battery degradation profiles not really being any different then the Leaf Plus (its hard to find enough data points for Niro/Kona and Bolt is now kind of forfeit with the software limitation). Teslafi, seems to confirm that as well.

You can find dozens in the Tesla forums, but here is one youtuber I like because of his earnest approach to his tests.
https://youtu.be/7XdyOxB9n8c

It feels like/appears the late 2019 M3 and later saw a widening of battery suppliers and quality of the smaller packs in terms of degradation curves has some increasing variation...or so it appears.

So I hope your M3 has capacity for a 2 sigma loss in range/capacity and still stay within your needs. (in jest)
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:31 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:58 pm
So I hope your M3 has capacity for a 2 sigma loss in range/capacity and still stay within your needs.
I hope so too.

Figuring out degradation in my car is something of an assumptions game because Tesla sandbagged the range when the car was first released. EPA *testing* (not the window sticker) reported 323 miles and my car now reports in the 314 - 317 range, so perhaps ~ 2% - 2.5% degradation in 2.5 years although in the last year the range has not decreased.

As for the anecdotes you love to find, we have discussed them before. Some charging routines lead to poor BMS calibration. There is little reason to think the outliers are anything but artefacts.

So I'm pretty confident in saying that the 2 sigma annual degradation is no more than 2% a year in the Model 3, and my car is fairing much better -- perhaps 0.5% a year after the first year. I'll have more confidence in my car's degradation rate in a couple of years ... if I continue to monitor. If there is no degradation next year either I'll just call it an issue for the history books and check the range if I ever decide to sell the car.

I've thought more than once about swapping the car for a 400 mile Model Y when that car comes out and continuing to buy used 1/2 cars for my wife since that easily covers her use case, but I like my car too much to be practical about it. I think it more likely that I'll replace 'her' LEAF with a future Model Y and keep the Model 3 as 'my' car.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15423
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:15 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:58 pm
Sage

While I agree with your Leaf value statements in terms of use case (mainly sub 200 mile journeys, limited DC needs, highly discounted purchase+fed credit, no additional ICE needs, etc..) as the sweet spot for the Leaf Plus, I continue to see evidence showing the M3 battery degradation profiles not really being any different then the Leaf Plus (its hard to find enough data points for Niro/Kona and Bolt is now kind of forfeit with the software limitation). Teslafi, seems to confirm that as well.

You can find dozens in the Tesla forums, but here is one youtuber I like because of his earnest approach to his tests.
https://youtu.be/7XdyOxB9n8c

It feels like/appears the late 2019 M3 and later saw a widening of battery suppliers and quality of the smaller packs in terms of degradation curves has some increasing variation...or so it appears.

So I hope your M3 has capacity for a 2 sigma loss in range/capacity and still stay within your needs. (in jest)
I am gathering data to (throwing out almost as much as I gather...) and from what I can tell, both follow the same patterns but the LEAF has roughly 33 to 75% more degradation during its break in period lasting 12-18 months. After that, they appear to be the same losing ~ 1% a year.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:07 pm

Looking forward to seeing that data. Any signs of our first bar loser?


GM's new commercial is pretty funny. Taking on Norway.

https://youtu.be/mdsPvbSpB2Y
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

goldbrick
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:38 am

I didn't know Audi was the leading EV brand in Norway, or that they had a sense of humor :mrgreen:

https://youtu.be/otsK2M4tQI0

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:20 pm

I love battle. Leaf still has highest overall EV sales in Norway, but Etron has had the highest yearly sales the last 2 years.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:28 am

Ok, my SV+ (may 2019 build) just finished its quarterly, and in spite of our single digit weather, the adjustment went UP. .07-.08% (to 93.36% SoH). First cold weather increase. I did charge to 100% 1 tume during the quarter. No clue whether that helped at all or not. I do DC charge this car maybe once a week.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15423
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:43 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:28 am
Ok, my SV+ (may 2019 build) just finished its quarterly, and in spite of our single digit weather, the adjustment went UP. .07-.08% (to 93.36% SoH). First cold weather increase. I did charge to 100% 1 tume during the quarter. No clue whether that helped at all or not. I do DC charge this car maybe once a week.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk
Nice. What was the change from quarter to quarter (day after previous adjustment to day after this adjustment)
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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