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Re: GCR: GM battery chief: 600 mile EVs viable, million-mile battery in sight

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:43 pm
by WetEV
coleafrado wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 11:57 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:54 pm
I remember an aluminum-air prototype car back in the Nineties. The discharge output was so low that they needed to add a smaller Ni-Cad pack just so the car could accelerate on the highway. They had more luck with a bus, again, IIRC, with a second pack for acceleration. The aluminum modules had to be replaced regularly as they were exhausted.
Not to mention that Al-air discharge efficiency (when recycling is accounted for) is about the same as internal combustion.
Both are true.

The first point is why a hybrid battery is the only realistic way to handle this. Power output of a 100kG Al-air battery would be on the order of 20kW to 40kW;. That's enough for a steady speed, but not enough for significant hill climbing or for zippy acceleration. It also responds to the airflow through the battery, so output is delayed while the air pump speeds up airflow. Regeneration energy can't be captured by the Al-air as well.

The second point is also true. With a hybrid battery, as most trips are short, so most of the total energy used is stored in the Li-ion battery. About 75% of miles driven are on trips under 100 miles. Some of the longer trip's miles would also be on the more efficient Li-ion battery. The Al-air also has the potential to be a way to shift energy seasonally. Renewable energy is more abundant in some seasons and less in others. Produce Aluminum while the Sun shines, and use it when needed.

I'm not sure if this is ever going to be mainstream rather than niche. Decades away at best.

Re: GCR: GM battery chief: 600 mile EVs viable, million-mile battery in sight

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 4:55 pm
by LeftieBiker
The above combination of an Aluminum-Air battery and a more traditional lithium battery would compete directly with fuel cell-battery applications. I wonder if there is a scenario in which the fuel cell loses that competition...?

Re: GCR: GM battery chief: 600 mile EVs viable, million-mile battery in sight

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 5:30 pm
by smkettner
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 4:55 pm
The above combination of an Aluminum-Air battery and a more traditional lithium battery would compete directly with fuel cell-battery applications. I wonder if there is a scenario in which the fuel cell loses that competition...?
I believe that scenario has already played out ;)

Re: GCR: GM battery chief: 600 mile EVs viable, million-mile battery in sight

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 6:25 pm
by LeftieBiker
smkettner wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 5:30 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 4:55 pm
The above combination of an Aluminum-Air battery and a more traditional lithium battery would compete directly with fuel cell-battery applications. I wonder if there is a scenario in which the fuel cell loses that competition...?
I believe that scenario has already played out ;)
True enough, but I was thinking of a niche application.

Re: GCR: GM battery chief: 600 mile EVs viable, million-mile battery in sight

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:08 am
by lorenfb
Coming soon, maybe;
Range anxiety is the #1 consumer concern for electric vehicles, but a new breed of ultra-high energy density batteries may change everything. We’re joined by Dr. K.M. Abraham, an award-winning pioneer in lithium-ion battery research and the inventor of the lithium-air battery, who explains how a 40-year-old breakthrough in battery technology may lead to electric vehicles with a 1,000 mile range, smartphones that last for a week & drones that fly for hours.
https://medium.com/predict/lithium-air- ... 8717dec437
Well, as you mentioned earlier, we are reaching a limit in the capacity of materials to pack more and more energy. If I look at the periodic table of elements, and look at the possibilities of making new batteries, we are already reaching a limit in the availability low equivalent weight materials for new battery systems capable significantly higher energy densities.
What many Leaf owners express frequently;
You have to remember that with each charge/discharge cycle, the battery capacity goes down, and in a year or so you will get much less. That creates a lot of pressure for batteries that can give you a 400 or 500 mile range without any difficulty in the near term.