FuManchu
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Jul 2020

Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:34 pm

I checked a used Leaf which is very interesting to me. I did a Leaf Spy on it and the results were a bit suspicious, meaning they look too good to be true to me - see below.

It is an Acenta with 24 kWh battery. The car has close to 28.000 km, first registration was in 12/2015 in Germany.

The > 100% SOH seems suspicious to me and the rest of the numbers are also seem too good for a car of that age and mileage.

I heard about the possibility of a BMS reset with the consequence that the SOH is reset 100% and needs a couple of battery cycles to get back to reality. Does that also affect the GIDs? Is there anything else I could test to verify the SOH?

The condition of the car is very good and the price is reasonable for the age and mileage. It's from a big and trusted Nissan dealer in Germany so I really don't expect any manipulation. I would really like to buy it if everything is ok with the battery so I look forward to your opinions.

AHr = 66.02
SOH = 100.95%
Hx = 98.80%
Battery Voltage: 390.28V
2 QCs, 651 L1/L2s
241 GIDs 85.8%
SOC: 84.2% / 18.7 kWh remaining
Odo is equal to the mileage displayed on the dashboard.

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:05 pm

Sometimes the BMS will get reset when some service is performed or repair done. Ask the dealership if this was the case. You can calculate battery capacity from a longer range test, or by noting how much charge the pack accepts when charged from near empty to full.
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goldbrick
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:21 pm

I agree that a real life range test is the best option. I did that recently on a 2013 that I bought for my father from a dealership that was just a lot full of repo's and other assorted odd cars.

I'd drive 60 km or so (farther is better) and see how much the SOC drops. There is a button on the dash that will display SOC in %. Use that with an estimate of the efficiency (km/kWh, which depends on speed, hills, your driving technique but 7,2 km/kWh is probably a middling estimate) to find the range you can expect if using the entire charge from the battery, which will correlate to SOH.

WetEV
Posts: 4009
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:27 am

FuManchu wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:34 pm
Is there anything else I could test to verify the SOH?
Best possible test would be to discharge the battery to 10% and recharge to 100% and measure the kWh needed using a good quality power meter. Some EVSEs have very acceptable power meters included. This plus battery temperature should allow a SOH measurement to fairly good accuracy.

Second best would be a long enough drive to estimate range.

Either would be more than good enough.
WetEV
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2014 Leaf SL Red
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15067
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:34 am

FuManchu wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:34 pm
I checked a used Leaf which is very interesting to me. I did a Leaf Spy on it and the results were a bit suspicious, meaning they look too good to be true to me - see below.

It is an Acenta with 24 kWh battery. The car has close to 28.000 km, first registration was in 12/2015 in Germany.

The > 100% SOH seems suspicious to me and the rest of the numbers are also seem too good for a car of that age and mileage.

I heard about the possibility of a BMS reset with the consequence that the SOH is reset 100% and needs a couple of battery cycles to get back to reality. Does that also affect the GIDs? Is there anything else I could test to verify the SOH?

The condition of the car is very good and the price is reasonable for the age and mileage. It's from a big and trusted Nissan dealer in Germany so I really don't expect any manipulation. I would really like to buy it if everything is ok with the battery so I look forward to your opinions.

AHr = 66.02
SOH = 100.95%
Hx = 98.80%
Battery Voltage: 390.28V
2 QCs, 651 L1/L2s
241 GIDs 85.8%
SOC: 84.2% / 18.7 kWh remaining
Odo is equal to the mileage displayed on the dashboard.
ahr is only 98% of the likely original capacity
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15518
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:59 am

ahr is only 98% of the likely original capacity
Yes, and this alone is enough to make a recent BMS reset likely.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

FuManchu
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Jul 2020

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:21 pm

Thanks for all of your replies. I guess I'll make a longer test drive then, maybe including a charge on a Chademo station.

Two remaining questions:
Which efficiency can I expect from a Chademo charging station? Meaning what do i have to deduct from the kWh that the charging station is telling? I could extrapolate this value to 100% SOC to estimate the real current capacity of the battery.
Does the BMS reset also influence the number of GIDs?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15067
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:48 pm

FuManchu wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:21 pm
Thanks for all of your replies. I guess I'll make a longer test drive then, maybe including a charge on a Chademo station.

Two remaining questions:
Which efficiency can I expect from a Chademo charging station? Meaning what do i have to deduct from the kWh that the charging station is telling? I could extrapolate this value to 100% SOC to estimate the real current capacity of the battery.
Does the BMS reset also influence the number of GIDs?
95%
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

goldbrick
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:21 pm

GID is just shorthand for some # of W-hr and is calculated from information supplied by the BMS, so yes, a BMS reset will skew the number of GID's.

The only way to know the true SOH after a BMS reset is to externally measure the battery capacity by monitoring a charging session or doing a range test.

FuManchu
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Jul 2020

Re: Used leaf suspicious battery SOH

Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:52 am

Oh, one last thing: If I do the range/charge test and extrapolate the energy amounts to 100% SOC, I need to know what energy amount the 0-100% SOC (according to the values displayed on the dashboard) would be on an new battery. I read this post https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16197. But I‘m still not sure if the 100% SOC is equal to 21.3 kWh or 22.48 kWh.

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