society
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:06 am
Delivery Date: 08 Apr 2013

2013 Battery Bars half way

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:05 am

OK everyone -
Original owner
San Francisco City resident, full term thus far

Although it says 47mi range at full 100% - it's more like 23, cause you know... 47 looks better? (mileage shown may differ from actual) :lol:

I've loved my leaf from day one, but that love is ending. This car has had more problems than any other car I've ever owned, I've gotten probably 6 random requests from lawyers to sue Nissan because of this car and never did it. Now I'm wishing I had, because it's nearly useless after 50k miles. But.....I also understand that as an early adopter, I'm taking on more risk of unproven technology. I had always hoped that one day, the tech would update, and I'd be able to just swap out v1 with v2. Doesn't seem to have transpired that way. Not sure I want to dump 7k into an older vehicle for the same range and future longevity. (replace batteries)

So my question :

What's the consensus for the projected longevity of this new + range leaf? haha

Image
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tzUbG8FxZTbQHUo27

cwerdna
Posts: 11171
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:24 am

Ouch! Has the car always resided in the city of SF?

From your delivery date, you have the early crap batteries. My 5/2013 '13 Leaf (I bought used in July 2015) is still at 11 bars w/Leaf Spy SOH now at around 79.9ish% and past 68K miles. I live and work in a MUCH hotter part of the Bay Area (e.g. on summer days, it could be 90+ F down here while below 70 F in SF).

1st bar for me went away in Nov 2017: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 15#p511915. I need to check stats about at what SOH people tend to lose their 2nd bar, but I wouldn't be surprised that happens by end of Oct 2020.

Of course, back in 2013, there was no way to know that Nissan quietly improved the batteries and when...

Mods: Maybe this can be merged into the 2013 to 2014 capacity bar losses thread?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1605
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:15 pm

In case you want to investigate upgrade options, here's a FB page that maintains a list of installers:

https://bit.ly/2P08neP

It's not super obvious, but you need to click on the "See more" link in the top most post to reveal the full list.

In your area, looks like these guys are about it: https://www.acehybridgroup.com/copy-of-honda

Scroll to the bottom of that page for the two Nissan LEAF listings

Someone on these forums posted a list of installers too, but it may have just been a repost of what's on that FB page.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

flydiver
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:14 am
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 337789
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:57 am

See this is only your 2nd post. Maybe you've been lurking awhile.
There are big difference between battery generations. There is also significant difference in battery care, and opinions on battery care.
One of the worst things for the battery is extended time at full charge, especially in heat.

Have you had other issues besides the battery degradation? You make it sound like the whole car is a lemon.
2014 SL; Seattle, WA

cwerdna
Posts: 11171
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:04 pm

Re: lawyers, I've received a few pieces of random bulk junk mail from law firms re: Leaf repairs, some of which are amusing (e.g. wrong model year, symptoms that don't apply to EVs, etc.) I still have some of them but I don't recall personally receiving any that relate to battery degradation though.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:50 pm

My Chicago based Leaf lost its first bar after just over 5 years. With 11 bars, you could do 80 conservative miles with the car vs about 100 new (i even made the 100 mile and q20 mile club).

After year 1, we charged to 100% every night, not knowing better.

As experience was very good, we upgraded to a Plus..well a pair of them actually.

Sorry to hear you battery didn't fair as well. Curious as to your charging habits. The mileage matters less except of you did many dc charges.

I would read up on the 62kWh and Plus threads to see our experiences. I just did a 232 mile run on a charge this past weekend on my S+ which included significant freeway driving. (I consider myself a relatively conservative driver, but a good ev driver).
Last edited by DougWantsALeaf on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

cwerdna
Posts: 11171
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:54 pm

^^^
You mean 62 kWh?

From the OP's delivery date, it's almost 100% certain it was built before 4/2013. Seems like '13 Leafs built before 4/2013 had batteries just as bad as '11 and '12 model years. And yes, if the OP had charging habits that were bad for the battery (e.g. charging to 100% all the time and leaving it there for extended periods), that would further hasten its demise.

I'm still at 11 bars (soon to be 10) and my used 5/2013 built '13 Leaf has passed 7 years since original in-service date which began in late June 2013 by the previous unknown person who leased it.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:10 pm

what pushed us to upgrade was in the winter of early 2019, when it hit -27F the cold took our Leaf range down to maybe 35 miles (one trip downtown and back with a small buffer). I didn't want my wife or kids to be at risk, so took the plunge on a new one.

A year later I dont know if the tech package was worth it. Propilot is nice, but I rarely use it, unless trying to eat while driving. The safety features are nice though.

If eNiro had come to the Midwest, we would have considered it. We didn't like the Bolt and csrgo was too small. My wife doesn't like driving Teslas after her test drives.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

society
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:06 am
Delivery Date: 08 Apr 2013

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:34 pm

FIrst off - thanks for all the responses!
cwerdna wrote: ^^^
it's almost 100% certain it was built before 4/2013. Seems like '13 Leafs built before 4/2013 had batteries just as bad as '11 and '12 model years. And yes, if the OP had charging habits that were bad for the battery (e.g. charging to 100% all the time and leaving it there for extended periods), that would further hasten its demise.
Just looked at the date code - 1/13. :(
Yes I charged back to 100% all the time - who wouldn't? I didnt know about the 80% rule until I started looking around this place. Thats crazy, having to charge your car to a certain % in order to have a legitimate EOL! Super upset @ Nissan right now.
flydiver wrote: See this is only your 2nd post. Maybe you've been lurking awhile.
Have you had other issues besides the battery degradation? You make it sound like the whole car is a lemon.
Yep - lurker. SF city only, so very cool here. Rarely over 80 degree F.
Other issues I've had: maybe 4 recalls? cant remember. Aside form that : USB port died, driver door handle is still hanging off, seatbelt in back got stuck and had to be replaced, 2 keyfobs died (only bought 1 more), tires wore out before 30k, Axle 'clicking' problem, AC hose bad.

cwerdna
Posts: 11171
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Battery Bars half way

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:08 pm

I'm guessing you didn't get down to 8 capacity bars before the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty expiration?
society wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:34 pm
Just looked at the date code - 1/13. :(
Yes I charged back to 100% all the time - who wouldn't? I didnt know about the 80% rule until I started looking around this place. Thats crazy, having to charge your car to a certain % in order to have a legitimate EOL! Super upset @ Nissan right now.
I knew about high SoC being bad for li-ion batteries for ages. There were warnings all over the place in the '11 and '12 Leaf manual. '13 Leaf SV and SL even added an extra long-life mode toggle so you didn't have to use the timers to charge to 80% only.

On page EV-24 of the '13 Leaf manual (https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/N ... manual.pdf) there are all sorts of hints to not charge above 80% unless you need to. See viewtopic.php?p=498123#p498123 or the manual.

In 2010 at http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads ... ds.478664/, I was looking to see if any non-Lenovo laptops had a power manager UI like at https://web.archive.org/web/20071229031 ... ebox/?p=52 (images all broken) that let you control how high you could charge your laptop like my 2007 vintage ThinkPad T61p had. I've since then only still bought Lenovos due to this feature

Many other EV makers have added UI to let you control how full to charge and/or advise against charging to full unless you need to, sometimes via UI affordances. I believe Tesla Model S and beyond have ALWAYS had such UI.

Elon for his cars used to say 80% to 30%: https://insideevs.com/news/341423/tesla ... nds-video/ (see tweets in the piece).
society wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:34 pm
Other issues I've had: maybe 4 recalls? cant remember. Aside form that : USB port died, driver door handle is still hanging off, seatbelt in back got stuck and had to be replaced, 2 keyfobs died (only bought 1 more), tires wore out before 30k, Axle 'clicking' problem, AC hose bad.
Other than tire wear, never had any of these problem on my former leased for 2 years '13 Leaf nor my owned '13 Leaf that I bought used in 2015.

I turned in my 2 year leased '13 w/enough tread to not be dinged by NMAC. But yeah, they probably wouldn't have it made it to 30K miles and definitely not 36K miles. My used '13 with under 24K miles had 3 very worn tires that I replaced immediately. If you do a lot of stop and go driving w/turns, you'll wear them out MUCH faster than driving w/little of that. (And yes, I don't like driving in SF.)

This guy with his 130 mile/day commute went 93K (!) miles on the original tires.
viewtopic.php?p=461484#p461484
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14580&p=332443&hilit=tires#p332443

I commented at viewtopic.php?p=461583#p461583.

Is yours an S trim? If so, this came up re: a broken AC pipe: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/ ... 3-2280.pdf https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Do ... 6669/1vb31.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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