SageBrush
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:11 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 am
lorenfb wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:39 am
knowing my L2 charge rate is about 5kW/hr.
**cough**
... ...
kW per hour, Loren ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 11132
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:51 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:08 am
eKrom wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:12 am
So why would NIssan not provide this option in SL and have their cars break the battery faster?
I don't think Nissan has ever officially answered this but the suspicion is that the EPA reduced or threatened to reduce the Leaf's mileage rating to the mileage expected when it was charged to 80% SOC. After Nissan removed that option the EPA rated the car at 100% SOC.
It was removed from US Leafs starting with model year '14. It remained around longer in some countries (e.g. '15 in Ireland had it) until it totally went away.

https://insideevs.com/news/317213/2013- ... gs-system/
https://insideevs.com/news/320736/2014- ... -84-miles/

Yes, it seems likely that Nissan eliminated it for the above reason. Back in 2014, a 75 mile range car didn't look too competitive amongst sub-100 mile EVs back then. 84 miles is near top of what was available in that price range.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

eKrom
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:08 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2020
Leaf Number: 307821
Location: Bay Area, CA
Contact: Website

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:26 pm

Hey all!

Thanks for all the discussion here! I am new to EV, my Leaf is 3 week old (with me).

I am all for no-effort, plug and forget (as I am very forgetful). So any manual "3rd grade math to compute start time" would mean I will forget in the heat of the day to set it right (human factors). Likely also, the charging is not time-linear so you'd need a some polynomial function to estimate the time (not longer 3rd grade). Also, I am not fun of waking 4am to unplug it. Perhaps I should have stressed in original question an "AUTOMATIC" way. Not to mention my wife is the one in need of this ;-)

Thanks to the input I found this, very interesting:
https://github.com/openvehicles/Open-Ve ... g-System-3

It suggests that the OBD-II has all the inputs and outputs necessary to implement a smart car feature extender, I wish the LeafSpy had a charge alarm feature. at least...Could be a cool DIY project.

It sounds very sad if the EPA is so stupid to force car manufacturers to maneuver around such features. I have looked at BMW i3 where the range extender REX is disabled in US model until the battery is depleted (there was a hack to re-enable it). US still is learning the law of unintended consequences, eh?

The end time timer does not work for me - it does not stop charging at set hour. I think it's really a "start time" that is automatically computed given the expected full charge at entered time. But hence it does not stop charging automatically it useless.

The best point is that it's a-OK to charge to 100% as long as the car is not sitting fully charged for long. Now how "long" is long?
'17 Leaf S, 15k, SOH=88% Hx=70%

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15473
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:40 pm

Long would be more than 3 hours or so in hotter weather, 12-18 hours or so in cooler weather. In frigid weather, we don't worry much about it.

The trick to using the end timer is to set it for a time the car can't possibly be fully charged at, and to disable the "Full Charge Priority" feature in the menu. I think it's called that, anyway. I suspect that it's enabled in your car, meaning that the car essentially disregards what you want, and tries to correct your 'mistakes' in timer setting in order to get a full charge.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 11132
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:50 pm

eKrom wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:26 pm
I am all for no-effort, plug and forget (as I am very forgetful). So any manual "3rd grade math to compute start time" would mean I will forget in the heat of the day to set it right (human factors). Likely also, the charging is not time-linear so you'd need a some polynomial function to estimate the time (not longer 3rd grade). Also, I am not fun of waking 4am to unplug it. Perhaps I should have stressed in original question an "AUTOMATIC" way. Not to mention my wife is the one in need of this ;-)
...
It sounds very sad if the EPA is so stupid to force car manufacturers to maneuver around such features. I have looked at BMW i3 where the range extender REX is disabled in US model until the battery is depleted (there was a hack to re-enable it). US still is learning the law of unintended consequences, eh?

The end time timer does not work for me - it does not stop charging at set hour. I think it's really a "start time" that is automatically computed given the expected full charge at entered time. But hence it does not stop charging automatically it useless.
FWIW, every Leaf I've plugged in model year 2013+ including gen 2's, while on level 2 (via ChargePoint graphs since I plugged in all sorts of EVs/PHEVs at work before lockdown) charge at full power (yes, linear) from empty until they're nearly full. When near full, there's a ramp down and usually 2 or bounces (examples at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 35#p490435 and https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 88#p521788).

Can you set only an end timer with an end time several hours after you plan to leave/unplug?

As for EPA stupid or whatever, AFAIK, the BMW i3 REx crippling was due to them wanting to be classified as a BEVx and related to CARB (California Air Resources Board). Hopefully someone came chime in w/the correct/more complete story. Yes, it is really dumb about the 80/100% averaging rule. Supposedly, gen 2 RAV4 EV was hit by this.

For some reason, Tesla's been able to get away with this for years w/UI that lets you charge to whatever % you want. 2017 and 2018 Bolt had a hilltop reserve toggle. Turning it on made it not charge as full. 2019+ Bolt have UI that lets you limit charge anywhere from 40 to 100% in 5% increments. Current HyunKia EVs also have some charge limiter UI, I believe in 10% increments and even separate settings for AC vs. DC charging.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:54 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:50 pm
eKrom wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:26 pm
I am all for no-effort, plug and forget (as I am very forgetful). So any manual "3rd grade math to compute start time" would mean I will forget in the heat of the day to set it right (human factors). Likely also, the charging is not time-linear so you'd need a some polynomial function to estimate the time (not longer 3rd grade). Also, I am not fun of waking 4am to unplug it. Perhaps I should have stressed in original question an "AUTOMATIC" way. Not to mention my wife is the one in need of this ;-)
...
It sounds very sad if the EPA is so stupid to force car manufacturers to maneuver around such features. I have looked at BMW i3 where the range extender REX is disabled in US model until the battery is depleted (there was a hack to re-enable it). US still is learning the law of unintended consequences, eh?

The end time timer does not work for me - it does not stop charging at set hour. I think it's really a "start time" that is automatically computed given the expected full charge at entered time. But hence it does not stop charging automatically it useless.
FWIW, every Leaf I've plugged in model year 2013+ including gen 2's, while on level 2 (via ChargePoint graphs since I plugged in all sorts of EVs/PHEVs at work before lockdown) charge at full power (yes, linear) from empty until they're nearly full. When near full, there's a ramp down and usually 2 or bounces (examples at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 35#p490435 and https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 88#p521788).

Can you set only an end timer with an end time several hours after you plan to leave/unplug?
You're correct! That's what makes it easy to setup various simple charging methods.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

goldbrick
Posts: 950
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Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:29 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:11 pm
lorenfb wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 am

**cough**
... ...
kW per hour, Loren ?
I think he meant kWh/hr^2

SageBrush
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:31 pm

eKrom wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:26 pm
The end time timer does not work for me - it does not stop charging at set hour. I think it's really a "start time" that is automatically computed given the expected full charge at entered time. But hence it does not stop charging automatically it useless.
Is the first use of the car at a similar time of the day ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

alozzy
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:26 pm

Dala's solution is both simple and inexpensive. Why not explore that option?

If he won't sell you a modded version, the muxsan can bus bridge can be purchased here:

https://www.tindie.com/products/muxsan/ ... rt-rev-25/

And the source code for Dala's BatterySaver is here:

https://github.com/dalathegreat/Nissan- ... tterySaver
Last edited by alozzy on Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

cwerdna
Posts: 11132
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: how to charge to 80% on model SL?

Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:19 am

If charging on a 30+ amp L2 EVSE at 240 volts, figure about 6 kWh per hour is added to the battery during the full power phase, before ramp down and bounces. 6 kWh/h --> 6 kW, since h's cancel out. 6.0 kW is the official max OBC output while drawing 6.6 kW from the wall.

At my work, the supply voltage is ~208 volts, hence the typical max of 5.7 to ~6.1 kW or so (from the "wall") on our 30 amp L2 EVSEs.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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