HerdingElectrons
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:33 pm

So I have only used the Chademo station at my dealer that's a 360V x100A so max 36kw charger although once I did see 38kw but anyways the last several times I have done a QC there it has taken WAY longer than it has historically & a few days ago I booted up LeafSpy & noticed that I was only seeing 1/2 the wattage charge rate that the car & charger was reporting.

The Charger walked the indicated charge rate from 36kW down to 24kW as my SOC went from 30ish% to 70ish% SOC and the battery temp did NOT climb hardly at all which anecdotally also correlates to the lower actual charge rate that LeafSpy was reporting.

So I was actually getting a 18kW charge and then as low as a 12kW charge. Temps were in the 50's F & the car was only driven 1 way for about 22 miles and then parked at Costco for about an hour before the 1 mile jaunt to the charger. Temp gauge was about 1/3 from L to R.

Back in Sept I had a battery check and a software update so I'm wondering if that is related...(Not the battery check)


Any ideas or others have the same thing happen?
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.9 Warm/Cold weather

09/18-01K Mi: 114.52AHr / SOH= 99.20%
04/19-10K Mi: 111.45AHr / SOH= 96.54%
11/19-20K Mi: 107.44AHr / SOH= 93.07%
12/20-33K Mi: 105.39Ahr / SOH= 91.29%

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16152
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:47 pm

Search for "rapidgate" and you will find many other instances of this.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

HerdingElectrons
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:54 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:47 pm
Search for "rapidgate" and you will find many other instances of this.
Leftie you CLEARLY either didn't read or comprehend my post. Rapidgate would NOT apply here. Battery was well below temp, was the 1st QC of the week much less day & I have used this specific QC charger over a dozen times without this issue happening so this is a new issue that is not a traditional rapidgate issue.

If anything if my dealer update my software to address the rapidgate issue then my charge rate would have increased not DECREASED.
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.9 Warm/Cold weather

09/18-01K Mi: 114.52AHr / SOH= 99.20%
04/19-10K Mi: 111.45AHr / SOH= 96.54%
11/19-20K Mi: 107.44AHr / SOH= 93.07%
12/20-33K Mi: 105.39Ahr / SOH= 91.29%

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16152
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:23 pm

I did read it. The first examples of slow DC charging were in England, with air temps in the fifties. I don't think the batteries were hot, either. Hot batteries are only part of the issue.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5608
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:14 pm

OP -- some clarity would help

Are you saying that the charging power reported by LeafSpy was ~ 1/2 the power reported by the charging station and the LEAF **at the same time** ?

If so,
One possibility is the difference between
1. The charger, which is reporting either power flowing through the meter or power flowing out of the charger;
2. LeafSpy, which I think is reporting power *into* the battery; and
3. The LEAF, which may be reporting power into the car -- which may be different than the power into the battery.


---
I'm not sure my story is applicable, but as an example of how these power displays can markedly differ:
I plugged in my Tesla on a cold day to my home EVSE which is rated for 32 Amps. The car display said that 16 of 32 max Amps were pulled from the EVSE, and *two* amps were going to the battery. I was confused so I looked at SMT (similar to LeafSpy) which also reported 2 amps to the battery, but a large power flow to the motors. This is the way my Tesla warms up the battery, so at that point I knew that my battery was cold and limiting charge; and second, that most of the power was being used for heating. After 10 minutes or so the Amp draw from the EVSE increased to 32/32 Amps and it all flowed to the battery.

---
I think that Lefty is correct and you experienced rapidgate --- but in this case from too COLD a battery. Your experience may also have included other heating power draws. I think LeafSpy also reports other heating draws under the ACC row.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2764
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:52 pm

I don't think I have used DCQC since my annual battery test in August (dealer did partial DCQC charge that day although I was not monitoring the car). Prior to that, the DCQC display matched the input power shown on the dash in front of the steering wheel for each quick charger I used. Leaf Spy shows two numbers--input to car and input to battery. The input to the battery is always a little less than the input to the car (a few hundred watts of auxiliary power is typical).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

danrjones
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Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 am

Go try it on a different fast charger. Find an ev connect or charge point or EA.

Eliminate the chance it's an issue with your dealers site first. That's what I would do anyway.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

HerdingElectrons
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:01 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:14 pm
OP -- some clarity would help

Are you saying that the charging power reported by LeafSpy was ~ 1/2 the power reported by the charging station and the LEAF **at the same time** ?

I think that Lefty is correct and you experienced rapidgate --- but in this case from too COLD a battery. Your experience may also have included other heating power draws. I think LeafSpy also reports other heating draws under the ACC row.
I arrived at the charger at around 28-31% SOC IIRC

The Charger was reporting 360V & 100A charge rate aka 36kW
The Leaf Dash was reporting 36kW charge rate & the corresponding charge time to 50%/75% was like 15min & 25min or something like that.

after about 20min the Dash SOC was showing in the 40%ish SOC so I knew that something was off & this time I had my iPad which is what I use LS Pro so I plugged in my OBD-II dongle and at this point the Charger & Dash was reporting a 28kW charge rate & LeafSpy was showing 14,xxx watts going into the battery & 100ish watts for accessories and intermittent 200-400watts for the climate system.

At this point in the charge session the battery temp sensors were in the 70'sF in LS Pro & the dash showed the temp gauge to be about 35-45% from L-R sioi it really should NOT be too cold & historically the battery after 20+ min of QC would absolutely be above 50% so that leads me to believe that the 1/2 rated charging had occurred during the entire charge.

The literal doubling of time to reach xx SOC reinforces that belief. The annoying part is the charge algorithm was tapering the charge rate based on the SOC% but with only 1/2 the actual current the cells were not heating up as fast although ironically if I have more time this is a "better" way to "fast" charge since it's less stressful to the pack
Last edited by HerdingElectrons on Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.9 Warm/Cold weather

09/18-01K Mi: 114.52AHr / SOH= 99.20%
04/19-10K Mi: 111.45AHr / SOH= 96.54%
11/19-20K Mi: 107.44AHr / SOH= 93.07%
12/20-33K Mi: 105.39Ahr / SOH= 91.29%

HerdingElectrons
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:05 pm

danrjones wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 am
Go try it on a different fast charger. Find an ev connect or charge point or EA.

Eliminate the chance it's an issue with your dealers site first. That's what I would do anyway.
I'm going to go back to the dealer with a lower SOC but reasonable pack temp & log the whole charging session. I do have another QC charger I can try via a new EA station but will have to see what's involved to use/pay for said session. I'm also curious what the voltage of that charger is because that may provide a greater than 36kW charge rate which would be a 1st for me.

anecdotally I rarely QC & only do it because my dealer is across the street from Costco so I typically charge after shopping so it makes my trip 42 miles round trip "free" aside from time
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.9 Warm/Cold weather

09/18-01K Mi: 114.52AHr / SOH= 99.20%
04/19-10K Mi: 111.45AHr / SOH= 96.54%
11/19-20K Mi: 107.44AHr / SOH= 93.07%
12/20-33K Mi: 105.39Ahr / SOH= 91.29%

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15330
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:46 pm

HerdingElectrons wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:33 pm
So I have only used the Chademo station at my dealer that's a 360V x100A so max 36kw charger although once I did see 38kw but anyways the last several times I have done a QC there it has taken WAY longer than it has historically & a few days ago I booted up LeafSpy & noticed that I was only seeing 1/2 the wattage charge rate that the car & charger was reporting.

The Charger walked the indicated charge rate from 36kW down to 24kW as my SOC went from 30ish% to 70ish% SOC and the battery temp did NOT climb hardly at all which anecdotally also correlates to the lower actual charge rate that LeafSpy was reporting.

So I was actually getting a 18kW charge and then as low as a 12kW charge. Temps were in the 50's F & the car was only driven 1 way for about 22 miles and then parked at Costco for about an hour before the 1 mile jaunt to the charger. Temp gauge was about 1/3 from L to R.

Back in Sept I had a battery check and a software update so I'm wondering if that is related...(Not the battery check)


Any ideas or others have the same thing happen?
First off; the temp gauge is still 12 segments so I would edit your description to "4 TB's"

2nd off; There was a DC charge rate SW adjustment available and you MUST request it. Did you get that done?

3rd off; There is such a thing as IceGate (made up term by me) that controls when the knee happens on a DC charge. The colder the "pack" (not OAT), the lower the knee which means this post should have notated the SOC's involved with all these charging events.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... -leaf.html
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 92.44% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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