62kWh Battery heater

Im located in the nordics and am considering buying a 2019 Leaf Tekna 62kWh imported from France. Im finding it hard to find any information of battery heaters used in this bigger battery. I have been in contact to my local Nissan importer and they did give me the following information:

40 kWh has Physical heating element
62kWh has Software driven heating based on the heat created from current in the battery

I do know that the physical heating element is installed to all Leafs sold in the nordics but does anybody know if the Software driven heating is included in all or just the ones sold originally in the colder countries. Would sound logical that this would be done to all as it is only a software and does not require any physical installation. Finding reliable information on this has proven to be next to impossible...

I've tried to look this up as well (just recently myself since it's getting colder and I've have not driven my new Leaf through winter yet) and the most I could find is what you have as well. I'm not sure what it means for software load unless it's switching on the climate control to heat the cabin to produce the power load. :?

The BMS could also run balancing current through the various cells and use the battery's internal resistance to generate heat. I'm not sure how the pack is wired but I thought the balancing points made access to each individual cell possible so groups of 2 cells in series could be used to charge single cells, and then vice versa until the pack was drained.

I also wonder if there is something different about the 62kWh packs or if this is just a new tech to reduce part count and cost.

I looked through all my 2020 manuals, service guides, reference guides, warranty, etc. I couldn't find anything about how it actually keeps the 62 kWh battery warm. It mentions plenty of times that the 40 kWh has a built-in battery warmer.

Anyone want to help finance my experiment to wrap my entire 2020 Leaf plus in a thermal blanket and fill it with dry ice to get the entire car temperature down to -20C / -4F to see what happens? :mrgreen: :lol:

For those worried needlessly, or who live in Frigid climates: you can use plug-in oil pan warmers as battery pack warmers. Someone here did that, and I remember recommending it to...Dala? as the solution to an old Leaf pack with no battery heater.

LeftieBiker said:

For those worried needlessly, or who live in Frigid climates: you can use plug-in oil pan warmers as battery pack warmers. Someone here did that, and I remember recommending it to...Dala? as the solution to an old Leaf pack with no battery heater.

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:? where would you stick the hot magnetic heater? I'm guessing everything under the Leaf would be plastic or fibrous material and not conducive to stick a magnetic heater.
Knightmb, just come to MN basically any night in January :lol:
Not sure how Nissan would do it but I'm sure after their first year('11) Nissan wouldn't make a Leaf for N. America without provisions for sub-zero temps. Of course there are areas that get colder than my area but if you read the owners manual for even many ICE vehicles, some mention -20 to -30F as the maximum recommended temp for storage or even use.

:? where would you stick the hot magnetic heater? I'm guessing everything under the Leaf would be plastic or fibrous material and not conducive to stick a magnetic heater.

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IIRC, the ones used were adhesive, not magnetic.

LeftieBiker said:

:? where would you stick the hot magnetic heater? I'm guessing everything under the Leaf would be plastic or fibrous material and not conducive to stick a magnetic heater.

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IIRC, the ones used were adhesive, not magnetic.

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Interesting, the ones I've seen and used are metal and magnetic and get hot enough to sizzle spit, sure wouldn't want to try putting that near anything other than metal.

I'm assuming that the ones used by someone here didn't get that hot.

My interpretation of the owner manual description of the 62 kWh vs. 40 kWh battery is the same as the earlier posts: The 40 kWh packs have physical resistance heaters while the 62 kWh packs are kept from freezing by drawing current. Based upon notes about climate control being activated, I assume that the cabin resistance heater would be energized to draw current from the battery in order to keep battery internal temperature from getting too low. The manual makes no distinctions based upon geographic location and I know the 62 kWh models are sold in Canada so they should be OK in cold weather. Obviously, I have no way to test cold weather performance in Phoenix since it was only down to 39 F this morning.

GerryAZ said:

Based upon notes about climate control being activated, I assume that the cabin resistance heater would be energized to draw current from the battery in order to keep battery internal temperature from getting too low.

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Wouldn't that be horribly inefficient ?

2019 Leaf manual says the following:

For models with 40 kWh battery
The Li-ion battery warmer does not operate if the available Li-ion battery charge is less than approximately 15% and the charger is not connected to the vehicle. To help prevent the Li-ion battery from freezing, do not leave the vehicle in an environment if temperatures may go below -1°F (-17°C) unless the vehicle is connected to a charger

For models with 62 kWh battery
The Li-ion battery warmer does not operate if the normal charger is not connected to the vehicle. To help prevent the Li-ion battery from freezing, do not leave the vehicle in an environment if temperatures may go below-4°F (-20°C) unless the vehicle is connected to a charger.

Do i understand this correct, if i have model with 62 kWh, i cannot leave it parked without a possibility to charge it if the temperature goes below -20c ? That sounds mental...

LeafFin said:

Do i understand this correct,

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It reads that way to me also

Although parked for a short time is no doubt fine. Parked overnight -- maybe not

We have been thru 2 winters where the temp often goes below -4 F and have seen no problems or battery degradation. Mileage is way down at these temps, probably mostly because we don't have a heat pump (but not all because of that, for sure). Not to worry, drive it as needed......

Do i understand this correct, if i have model with 62 kWh, i cannot leave it parked without a possibility to charge it if the temperature goes below -20c ? That sounds mental...

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It takes a long, long time for even a 24kwh pack to cool into the single digits (F). The above is disconcerting, but "exercising" the pack before parking it, and setting a climate control cycle after about 8 hours, should be enough to prevent damage. OTOH, if you live where it gets that cold at night, and stays below 10F in the daytime, THAT is a problem. A forced air electric heater - one with a strong fan - blowing under the car might work in that case.

We have been thru 2 winters where the temp often goes below -4 F and have seen no problems or battery degradation. Mileage is way down at these temps, probably mostly because we don't have a heat pump (but not all because of that, for sure). Not to worry, drive it as needed......

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At those temps the heat pump makes no noticeable difference. An SL may as well be an S, when it comes to the HVAC at those temps.

dmacarthur said:

We have been thru 2 winters where the temp often goes below -4 F and have seen no problems ...

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The question came from Finland, where it can go way below -4F and stay there

Yep, probably not an issue as long the battery is equipped with the heater. Still not 100% certain that this is case in this particular vehicle imported from France. Got nissan tech support to check it from their database by VIN-code. They told that there’s no heater but other source from Nissan told that he has understood that every 62kwh comes with heater as it isnt an physical but software based solution. I understood that there are Leafs in even Northern parts of Finland and Norway where it actually gets cold and i havent heard any this kind of issues from there.

LeafFin said:

They told that there’s no heater but other source from Nissan told that he has understood that every 62kwh comes with heater as it isnt an physical but software based solution.

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That's what I've found online as well. Even if it is a software solution, there has to be a physical component somewhere. It's not like they have the batteries mine timekoins or something to generate heat. The battery warmer in the 40 kWh runs at 300 watts last I read, so not only does the battery warm up from the current to supply it, the generated heat stays with the battery to compound the effect. That part makes sense.

The 62 kWh battery though, something? is running somewhere? and that produces enough power draw to warm the batteries. Is the heat being applied directly to the pack or just wasted somewhere in the Leaf? Seems like a very inefficient way to keep the pack warm. Like putting a space heater outside and using the warm of the power cord from your outlet to keep you warm instead. :?

It's those kind of questions that worry my wife because she knows it will turn into another "measure the gear oil temperature" or "how much 12V power does it take to turn on the Leaf" kind of stuff that will have me experimenting on our vehicles. :lol:

Since it is 50% larger I would presume that the 62kWh battery does not cool down as quickly in extreme conditions as the 40kWh battery. Perhaps that is why Nissan felt that they didn't need a dedicated heating element for the 62 kWh battery.

knightmb said:

The 62 kWh battery though, something? is running somewhere? and that produces enough power draw to warm the batteries. Is the heat being applied directly to the pack or just wasted somewhere in the Leaf? Seems like a very inefficient way to keep the pack warm. Like putting a space heater outside and using the warm of the power cord from your outlet to keep you warm instead. :?

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Yeah ...
I have to believe that we do not understand the tech solution, but I would not buy a 62 kWh LEAF in Finland until I had sorted out that question to my satisfaction.

One thing though: the dictate to have the car plugged in if under 0F still leaves unanswered *how* the battery is kept warm. So I think it amounts to saying 'don't run out of juice.' Since Nissan does not dictate a minimum charging power, even if 2 kW is used a fully charged 62 kWh pack would be good for 30 hours before damage occurred so I can imagine that extreme cold can be managed but not ignored.