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evnow
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:11 pm

This sounds credible. May be we can get this in vehicles in 3 to 5 years.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02 ... &seid=auto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Atul Kapadia, chairman and chief executive of Envia, said in a telephone interview. “The cost of cells will be less than half — perhaps 45 percent — of cells today, and the energy density will be almost three times greater than conventional automotive cells.”
Mr. Kapadia continued: “What we have are not demonstrations, not experiments, but actual products. We could be in automotive production in a year and a half.”
...
Envia’s announcement said that its packs would deliver cell energy of 400 watt-hours per kilogram at a cost of $150 per kilowatt-hour. Though it doesn’t disclose a cost breakdown, Tesla Motors rates the energy density of its Roadster’s pack at 121 watt-hours per kilogram. Envia said its energy-density performance was verified in testing of prototype cells at the Naval Service Warfare Center’s Crane evaluation division.
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Herm
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:32 pm

note the 500 cycle life.. you would need a 200 mile pack to achieve a life of 100k miles.

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evnow
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:37 pm

Herm wrote:note the 500 cycle life.. you would need a 200 mile pack to achieve a life of 100k miles.
We can get a 300 mile pack and that would be like Leaf's current battery size/weight/cost. With that kind of pack we can also expect better than 100k miles - since top & bottom would rarely be used.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:16 pm

battery prices will be tied to gas prices. if gas prices are high and stay that way, battery prices will not come down. i see more efficient packs, more miles, etc (despite what Nissan thinks, 50% more on the current pack is all would cover the masses much better than the current 100 miles)

its all marketing. Intel does not sell processors at $4.99 a dozen (although they could and still make money) because the market will pay more and that will be true for battery packs especially when the alternative is $200-400 a month in gas
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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Herm
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:11 pm

Mass production is the key, but if every car manufacturer uses a different chemistry and form factor then no luck.

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evnow
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:45 am

Some interesting comments by someone from Envia ...

http://blogs.motortrend.com/cost-cuttin ... ment-46497" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Over 400 cycles @ 80% DOD.

http://enviasystems.com/announcement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image
5.1 One of the highest energy cells used in consumer applications is the NCR18650A manufactured by Panasonic, which can be used as a comparative asset to the Envia cells. The NCR18650A cell specification claims 3100 mAh capacity, 3.6 V average and weighs 45.5 grams. The calculated energy density of this comparative cell would be approximately 245 Wh/Kg.

5.2 The test results from the prototype cells tested at Crane were in line with the results obtained from the manufacturer. The claims of 400 Wh/Kg were substantiated through the cycling tests performed at Crane. This is a 160% energy density increase over the industry standard indicated in paragraph 5.1.
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Herm
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:20 am

Better numbers at greencongress, 1000 cycles at 300wh/kg

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/02 ... 20227.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

is it April 1st yet?

Bassman
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:27 am

I read an article on this last year. They basically replace the spent electrolyte in the battery with a charged one. So it's like filling your small tank (batteries) at a gas station but with battery fluid instead of gasoline. :)
Glenn
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2012 Pearl White (Blizzard) Rav4 EV

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DaveEV
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:32 am

Is it really a 45Ah cell when it drops to 35Ah after a dozen cycles? That's nearly a 25% loss in capacity. Better to call it a 35Ah battery which is still impressive.

After 400-500 80% cycles it's down to 25Ah - 30% down from 35Ah and only about half of it's fresh capacity. By this point it's only nominally better than today's tech.

If they can get the anode to hold up better it'd be a lot more impressive.

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evnow
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:36 am

Bassman wrote:I read an article on this last year. They basically replace the spent electrolyte in the battery with a charged one. So it's like filling your small tank (batteries) at a gas station but with battery fluid instead of gasoline. :)
No it isn't. That is completely different.
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