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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:59 pm
by LeftieBiker
I remember talk about zinc-air and aluminum-air batteries in the Nineties, including a test of a Civic converted to aluminum-air, with a smaller NiCad pack for acceleration, and a bus with removable cells that could be replaced individually.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:55 pm
by GRA
Via IEVS:
Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Invest In 5-Minute Battery Charge Startup Enevate
https://insideevs.com/renault-nissan-mi ... t-enevate/
. . . The Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance is just another high-profile investor – right after LG Chem in October – which makes us think that Enevate really has something feasible in the works.

Enevate promises that its silicon-dominant lithium-ion cells combines several advantages:
  • extreme fast-charging capabilities (can be charged to 75% capacity in five minutes)
    high energy density for long-range EVs (around 250-300 Wh/kg)
    can also safely charge and discharge down to -40°C and capture more energy during regenerative braking
    low cost
    improved safety. . . .
We'll see if this proves to be another Envia, or if they can actually deliver. Li-Si is the forecast next step beyond Li-ion, on the way to Li-S, Li-metal, Li-air and/or solid-state batteries.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:39 pm
by JRP3
From what I can see it's nothing that special. Their non production cells are claimed to have 300wh/kg which is just slightly above Tesla's current production NCA cells. Fast charging is questionable.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:03 am
by GetOffYourGas
I'm glad they are working on lots of potential batteries - that's how we eventually find the next big thing.

That said, I think this work is addressing the wrong problem. I'm convinced that the #1 issue with current batteries is price. Think about it - if we could get Tesla's 100kWh battery for $100/kWh, that's $10k. That $10k battery could provide 250-300 miles of range for a typical mid-sized SUV like a CR-V or Rav4. As Tesla drivers have discovered, charging for 30 minutes every 3 hours of driving is more than acceptable.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:26 am
by JRP3
Energy density still needs to be improved. 100kWh pack would not fit in a RAV4 and would weigh too much. Model 3 has a longer wheelbase than a RAV4 and can only fit a 75-80kWh pack.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:56 am
by GetOffYourGas
You could simply stack the batteries and make them taller. It may cut a little into the clearance under the car, but your typical Rav4 is never driven off road so it really doesn't matter.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:03 am
by JRP3
That still doesn't address the weight issue, and I for one do take my RAV off road. Not to mention one reason batteries become cheaper is because increased energy density means less actual material is needed per kWh, so it's unlikely to see significant price drops without increased energy density.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:21 pm
by GetOffYourGas
I disagree that weight is a show stopper. I’m not saying it cannot or should not be improved. Just that it is not the main impediment for most people.

You are in the minority if you take a RAV4 off road. It’s not rate per se but definitely not the majority. And we don’t need EVs to serve every case, we need them to be compelling enough to make up a higher percentage of sales.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:39 pm
by JRP3
Nothing is a show stopper, not even cost. You could make an overly priced, low ground clearance, excessively heavy, 100kWh, RAV4 vehicle right now. Dropping cost only removes one of the problems. Model X has an 8 inch ground clearance, a double layer pack as you propose would cut that about in half and leave an unacceptable 4 inch clearance even for average use. Plus the added weight means heavier frame parts and suspension parts so it's an additive effect, which also drives up costs.
Next year Tesla will come out with the Model Y probably using the same pack as the Model 3 so 75-80kWh. Tesla is probably near $120/kWh so that would be a $9,600 pack. Even at $100/kWh they won't suddenly be able to fit a 100kWh pack without improvements in energy density or without significantly compromising the vehicle.

Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:58 am
by powersurge
Yes, but if you really want the larger battery, you will make due. If you want a 100KWH battery, then make the cars a little stronger, and make it mostly a 2-seater with room for storage..