JRP3
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:23 am

Why would anyone do that when Tesla already makes full sized vehicles with 100kwh packs?

GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:41 pm

GCC:
Ford partnering with Solid Power to develop solid-state batteries for next-gen EVs
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... power.html
. . . Solid Power’s solid-state technology combines a cathode, metallic lithium anode, and a safe, inorganic solid electrolyte layer. Solid-state batteries offer improved energy and safety as compared to current industry-standard lithium-ion batteries.

This partnership will heavily leverage Solid Power’s first fully automated, roll-to-roll production facility, which is anticipated to be fully operational in Q2 2019. . . .

Potential benefits of Solid Power’s ASSBs include:
  • Fifty percent higher energy vs. current state-of-the-art (SOTA) lithium-ion, which can increase at the module- and pack-level due to design simplicity.

    Substantially improved safety due to the elimination of the flammable liquid electrolyte as used in lithium-ion.

    Low-cost battery-pack designs through minimization of safety features and simplified thermal management.

    High manufacturability due to significant compatibility with automated, industry-standard, roll-to-roll production. . . .
There's a comparison chart. Biggest issue I see is the minimum operating temp, only 0 deg. C for these batteries (but 150 deg. C max). They claim -20 - +60C for current Li-ion, although most I'm aware of are -30C.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:05 pm

ABG:
Toyota says it’s on track to produce solid-state batteries by 2025

It had planned to showcase them at the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics, which were postponed

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/28/toy ... ries-2025/

Toyota has developed a working prototype of its long-promised solid-state batteries that are operating in running concept vehicles, and the company remains on track for limited production of them by 2025. . . .

Solid-state batteries, which replace liquid electrolyte with a solid, are seen by some as the “holy grail” of electric vehicle technology. They have the potential for higher energy density and range, greater safety, faster recharging and longer lifespan, in addition to being less prone to problems with extreme temperatures. But the technology presents many challenges, some of which Kaita discussed. Toyota has been talking about solid-state batteries for at least a decade, but appears to have backed off some of its earlier, ambitious goals. Its current goal is reportedly to develop a battery that hangs on to more than 90% of its original performance over as long as 30 years.

According to AN, Toyota has developed prototype cells shaped like plates that are about the size and thickness of a thin spiral notebook, sealed in pouches and arranged in modules. It’s using a sulfur-based electrolyte that appears to more efficiently transfer lithium ions between negative and positive electrodes, and charging from zero to full takes less than 15 minutes. But one of the challenges is reportedly developing an electrolyte that can be densely compacted while remaining flexible, all without negatively affecting battery performance over time. One other challenge: how to manufacture the cells in an ultra-dry environment in high volumes. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 pm

One other challenge: how to manufacture the cells in an ultra-dry environment in high volumes. .

Maybe they should visit a lithium battery factory...
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GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 pm
One other challenge: how to manufacture the cells in an ultra-dry environment in high volumes. .

Maybe they should visit a lithium battery factory...

I presume that the requirements are considerably more stringent. Toyota has plenty of engineering talent and know how, so if the answer were as obvious as you suggest, I think they would have figured that out already.

It's not as if they have no experience with Li-ion batteries - the Prius and RAV4 Primes both use them, as did the PiP. The PiP used Panasonic cells. I've been unable to find who supplies the cells for the current PHEVs. I presume Toyota designed the packs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:57 pm

GCR:
Battery supplier SKI: 500 miles of range with 20 minutes of fast-charging, ready in 2021
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... dy-in-2021

The South Korean supplier SK Innovation revealed Thursday that it’s developing cells that will only need two quick 10-minute charges to cover more than 500 miles of range when installed in an EV.

SKI said that it expects to complete the development of the new cells by the first half of next year—or as soon as the end of the year—after which they “can play a significant role in the spread of EVs,” the company said in an accompanying press release. . . .

For SKI's near-future tech, EVs might be able to pack a more modest cell capacity—in a small-car footprint, for instance—and still be able to do long-distance road trips with a minimum of break time for charging.

The supplier says that it has decided to focus its development efforts on “long-life batteries that enable long-range driving,” and early this year revealed a new “SK Inside” branding strategy aiming for more awareness. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

JRP3
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:05 am

Another meaningless announcement. "500 miles" in Korea is not EPA so that needs to be de-rated, probably closer to 400 miles, and the wording "500 miles with 2 charges" is purposely misleading to make it seem as if it has 500 miles of range when it's really closer to 200 miles on a charge. This is a nothing burger.

SageBrush
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:57 am

JRP3 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:05 am
Another meaningless announcement. "500 miles" in Korea is not EPA so that needs to be de-rated, probably closer to 400 miles, and the wording "500 miles with 2 charges" is purposely misleading to make it seem as if it has 500 miles of range when it's really closer to 200 miles on a charge. This is a nothing burger.
My impression from the blurb is that SKI is focusing on charge rate, stating 25 miles of range per minute of charging. That sounds super impressive although more details are needed to really know what they have achieved. I presume the advert sleight of hand describing two charge sessions is a reflection of the slower speeds after ~ 50% SoC so the advert is saying charge speeds at low SoC.

For now, the tabless cell Tesla approach which relies on heat removal is reaching 15+ EPA miles per minute of added range from 5 - 60% SoC is a lot more credible and does not introduce any unwanted side-effects into the battery chemistry.
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03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
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GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:57 pm

GCR:
QuantumScape battery tech: A fast-charging electric-car game-changer?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... me-changer

Volkswagen-backed startup QuantumScape on Tuesday revealed new data showing the capabilities of its solid-state battery tech.

Several companies are working to develop solid-state batteries, which use a solid electrolyte instead of the liquid or gel used in current lithium-ion battery cells. But QuantumScape claims to be ahead of competitors in developing solid-state cells that can handle the rigors of automotive use.

In testing, large-area, single-layer, pouch cells were able to charge to 80% capacity in 15 minutes, the company said. They also showed a retained capacity greater than 80% after 800 charging cycles—a lifespan unmatched by competitors, the company claims.

Cells have also been tested to -30 degrees Celsius, a temperature too low for other solid-state chemistries to operate, the company said.

With these lifespan and temperature barriers broken, QuantumScape executives now believe solid-state batteries can replace lithium-ion batteries in electric cars.

“Lithium-ion provided an important stepping stone to power the first generation of EVs," QuantumScape CEO Jagdeep Singh said in a statement. "We believe QuantumScape’s lithium-metal solid-state battery technology opens the automotive industry up to the next generation battery and creates a foundation for the transition to a more fully electrified automotive fleet.”

Among the claimed advantages of solid-state batteries are energy density—QuantumScape said its batteries will offer 80% greater range than comparable lithium-ion batteries—and a very wide range at which peak fast-charging power is allowed, which could reduce charging times. . . .

QuantumScape, which counts former Tesla CTO and battery mastermind JB Straubel as a member of its board, announced plans to go public in September and it's now traded on NYSE. . . .

We'll see. Li-metal and solid-state techs are each big steps in next-gen battery development, and this appears to include both. However, announcements are a dime a dozen.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

JRP3
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:33 am

This is one of the few companies that has real credibility. I watched their presentation which included Dr. Stanley Whittingham and Venkat Vishwanathan plus JB Straubel and was impressed. I bought into the stock before the merger with Kensington and sold most of it since I think it's over hyped in the short term since they won't have a product for years.

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