new owner - am I doing something wrong?

defiancecp said:

The mi/kwh meter on the dash went up from 3.2 to 3.3 on the way home as well... I haven't reset it since getting the car, but that means I would have to have been above 3.3...

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If you don't reset it for every trip, you are looking at a long-term average that will change very slowly.

LEAFfan said:

planet4ever said:

We don't know the exact numbers, but each bar now appears to represent about 7% of the total capacity, and there is approximate 15% of the total capacity left after the last bar disappears. There is some debate as to whether all the bars are the "same size". I think they are, but others disagree.
Ray

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Based on my experiences so far, I believe the bars are different sizes. On this 80% charge so far I'm averaging 5.5Kwh on the dash driving 27 miles with 6 bars left. If they are the same, then that's only about 68 miles. It just seems like the next ones should increase so I can reach over 90 miles (5.5KwhX17).

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Can you explain your math, please? At a first rough cut you have used 4 bars for 27 miles, or about 7 miles per bar. If, as I suggest, each bar is 7%, then 100% is 100 miles, not 68. Actually, though, since 5.5 m/kWh is very high, I would expect that you have used less than four bars. All you really know is that you have used more than three bars. If, say, we assume 3.5 bars at 7% each, that's 24.5% used for 27 miles, which works out to 80% used for 88 miles. Is that close enough to 90 for you? (I agree that your multiplier of 17 is reasonable for 80%, but it's not a scientific fact at this point, nor do we know that the dash m/kWh is 100% accurate.)

Ray

planet4ever said:

Can you explain your math, please? At a first rough cut you have used 4 bars for 27 miles, or about 7 miles per bar.

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The OP? No, he used 6 bars over 27 miles. From 80% (10 bars) to 33% (4 bars).

Ok - trying it today. I have to go to the same places again. So here's what I'm trying different:

-Reset the trip meter so I can rely on the actual mileage rather than google maps for distance

-Reset the efficiency meter... didn't realize you could

-Changed my route a little bit. Part of the trip can be done either on interstate or streets. The distance is similar, but the drive is very different. The interstate I'd be significantly below traffic flow speed at 50, but it's nice and flat... The street route is very hilly, has 8 or 10 stop lights (can't remember exactly), but 40's a good speed for it. My assumption before was that the flat 60 would be better than hilly 40, but I guess not...


So far two bars down in 10-ish miles, dashboard says I'm getting 4.2 mpk.

Also, I'm trying to stick under 3 bubbles, but with some of the hills on the way to work, I'm still losing speed at 4 bubbles, so 3 bubbles would be a lot of speed loss - I figure a few seconds of inefficiency is worth not getting rear ended

Well, it appears that you are making good progress is learning to use your new LEAF. Congrats!

For now, best to ignore all the Carwings data. It is misleading at best, and just wrong at other times.

Followup to something said in this thread... It was stated earlier that with the software update, Nissan basically "hid" a chunk of mileage underneath the bars... Is that true?

So the 12 bars I would expect to be something like:
00-00%-04%
01-05%-12%
02-13%-20%
03-21%-28%
04-29%-36%
05-37%-44%
06-45%-52%
07-53%-60%
08-61%-68%
09-69%-76%
10-77%-84%
11-85%-92%
12-93%-100%

But are you saying it's actually more like:
00-00%-15% (though owner's portal reflects 0)
01-16%-23% (though owner's portal reflects 8)
02-24%-30% (though owner's portal reflects 17)
03-31%-37% (though owner's portal reflects 25)
04-38%-44% (though owner's portal reflects 33)
05-45%-51% (though owner's portal reflects 42)
06-52%-58% (though owner's portal reflects 50)
07-59%-65% (though owner's portal reflects 58)
08-66%-72% (though owner's portal reflects 67)
09-73%-79% (though owner's portal reflects 75)
10-80%-86% (though owner's portal reflects 83)
11-87%-93% (though owner's portal reflects 92)
12-94%-100% (though owner's portal reflects 100)


If so... Man, that's annoying. I understand the logic; underpromise so the car keeps an extra 'buffer' to prevent people getting stranded... but for those of us that are *operating* it with the expectation of keeping a buffer to be sure we don't get stranded, it's redundant and misleading...

surfingslovak said:

I'm having a similar problem. Yesterday I drove pretty much exactly 50 miles and the battery charge went from 92% to 33%. I got these numbers from Nissan's owner online portal, which I use to monitor the charging process. If I got my math right, 50 miles / 0.59 equals to 85 miles range. I'm driving very conservatively, live in California, I'm avoiding freeways like the devil and I'm always in ECO mode.

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I suspect since your car is one of the so-called "line jumpers" it's been modified to penalize you! (Only kidding)

Your range is about right. If you drive conservatively on the usual mix of SoCal freeway and surface streets, then charged to 100%, your total range will be about 80 miles. That's roughly 4 miles per kWh or 250 wh/mile, which is pretty good for moving a couple of tons around. Of course this isn't the practical range. Since you don't want to have to call for the flatbed you'll want to keep a couple of bars, or 15-20 miles in reserve. That means your practical range will be about 65 miles. If you charge to 80% that will drop your practical range to something like 50 miles. Turn of the AC or heater and it's downhill from there.

You can improve that by driving even more conservatively -- like going 50 MPH or 55 MPH -- but that involves some trade-offs.

SanDust said:

...Since you don't want to have to call for the flatbed you'll want to keep a couple of bars, or 15-20 miles in reserve. That means your practical range will be about 65 miles...

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I guess if you're really paranoid. Personally, I see nothing wrong with going into the last bar. It's been well established that even after the last bar is gone, you've got at least another 10 miles.

davewill said:

SanDust said:

...Since you don't want to have to call for the flatbed you'll want to keep a couple of bars, or 15-20 miles in reserve. That means your practical range will be about 65 miles...

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I guess if you're really paranoid. Personally, I see nothing wrong with going into the last bar. It's been well established that even after the last bar is gone, you've got at least another 10 miles.

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my experience with living at the top of a steep long hill is that once the last bar goes, I really am best not to push it any further before heading up the hill. Maybe for this reason, I have found the guesometer to be a pretty reliable gauge of how much distance I have left once it's down to the last 20 miles or so (the guesometer fluctuates a lot less toward the end of range). I've made it a point to find the actual edge of turtle mode, twice now, deliberately, so that I can judge how much wiggle room I actually have if the time comes and I unexpectedly run out of juice and have to judge where I'm going to pull over.

g

davewill said:

I guess if you're really paranoid. Personally, I see nothing wrong with going into the last bar. It's been well established that even after the last bar is gone, you've got at least another 10 miles.

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With the current firmware. The last bar gone means 10 miles at 38mph-ish, and 5 miles at 70mph.

One bar remaining should closely associate with the battery low warning, and zero bars should associate with the "very low" warning. These two warnings are based are measured "hard" values of battery power. The underlined values are estimated miles remaining.

Speed in MPH......38....50...60....70...Battery Value and percent battery remaining
Battery Warning...20...14...12....10....48...17.00%
Very Low Warn....10.....7....6.......5.....24.....8.50%
Turtle mode........about 1 mile............5......1.70%

Obviously, up hills, extreme temperatures (hot or cold), significant wind, snow on road, etc, will all decrease the range estimates.

A battery value at 100% is 270 - 281

Here's a chart from another thread that might be helpful to you... This is based on the "NEW" software and is not valid for any cars still running the old software.

TonyWilliams said:

One bar remaining should closely associate with the battery low warning, and zero bars should associate with the "very low" warning. These two warnings are based are measured "hard" values of battery power. The underlined values are estimated miles remaining.
Speed in MPH......38....50...60....70...Battery Value and percent battery remaining
Battery Warning...20...14...12....10....48...17.00%
Very Low Warn....10.....7....6.......5.....24.....8.50%
Turtle mode........about 1 mile..........5......1.70

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Interesting...I received the 'low battery' warning (fuel icon) at 11 miles and one bar remaining going around 38mph not 70mph. Maybe that was because I was getting 5.5m/kwh?

LEAFfan said:

Interesting...I received the 'low battery' warning (fuel icon) at 11 miles and one bar remaining going around 38mph not 70mph.

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Stop using the guess0meter !!!! Rely on the fuel bars, and when you're down to zero fuel bars, use the data points I provided with first the Battery and then Very Low warnings. Reset your trip odometer as soon as you get one of those warnings and look on the chart to determine your range.

You are missing the point if you are using your "guess o meter" to indicate that you have 11 miles. As has been stated numerous times, those numbers are NOT ACCURATE. If you were going 38mph on relatively flat highway, you've got 20-22 miles to go.

The chart I provided will give you the range based on the ACTUAL numeric value of power left in the battery (I included the raw data values in bold; 48, 24, 5) and the calculated remaining power remaining. The remaining calculation is the miles per kilowatt, roughly 10 miles per kilowatt at 38mph, reducing to 5 miles per kilowatt at 70mph.

DON'T USE CARWINGS, YOUR iPHONE, or the DASH GUESSOMETER to figure range.

Cover the guess0meter up !!!!

TonyWilliams said:

You are missing the point if you are using your "guess o meter" to indicate that you have 11 miles. As has been stated numerous times, those numbers are NOT ACCURATE.
The chart I provided will give you the range based on the ACTUAL numeric value of power left in the battery (I included the raw data values in bold; 48, 24, 5) and the calculated remaining power remaining. The remaining calculation is the miles per kilowatt, roughly 10 miles at 38mph, reducing to 5 miles at 70mph.

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Oh, so you are saying that I actually had 20 miles left when I was down to one bar and saw the low fuel icon?

LEAFfan said:

Oh, so you are saying that I actually had 20 miles left when I was down to one bar and saw the low fuel icon?

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YES !!! I edited my previous post to address that.

Use the chart that is posted by Mogur. It's useless to debate the guessOmeter numbers.

If you have questions on the chart, I'll answer those.

TonyWilliams said:

Use the chart that is posted by Mogur. It's useless to debate the guessOmeter numbers

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And this one is useful for what exactly? Certainly not for general use. Or do we get different charts for different temperature bands and different wind conditions and different terrain, all revised on a yearly basis to reflect battery pack degradation?

Your suggesting a precision that doesn't exist. Too many variables are unaccounted for.

And yet it turns my experience from an alarming bit of bad range to well within expectations. Based on the new chart, I was getting mid-60's total range before.

Incidentally, today I drove from 80% to 2 bars over the course of 45 miles. That would be scary using the original scale (since it would work out to 70 miles total range and I drove REALLY conservatively today), but using the chart I see that there's actually 34% of the battery remaining, so I used 46% to go 45 miles - total range estimate just a tad below 100 - Which sounds GREAT to me.

As a note, I'm now seeing 4.5 mpk range most of the time, so I'm getting better

Again, thanks for the chart - quick question, is that from one of the service manuals or something? Or was it user created based on experiences here?

SanDust said:

Your suggesting a precision that doesn't exist. Too many variables are unaccounted for.

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I've suggested, more than once, of the many variables that are not accounted for. Obviously, you chose to overlook that. If the chart doesn't work for you, don't use it. For new owners, it's a good guideline.

defiancecp said:

Again, thanks for the chart - quick question, is that from one of the service manuals or something? Or was it user created based on experiences here?

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The chart was developed using battery data derived from our crack team of hackers, driving experience, and a need for SIMPLICITY in deriving a predicted range.

There will always be somebody who "didn't get this or that range number". Great. I think you'll find it quite handy as you learn the ropes of the LEAF.