marccbr
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 7:46 pm
Delivery Date: 05 May 2011
Location: San Diego, Ca. East County

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:30 pm

On the original chart you say "Charging on L2 one mile per 5 minutes of charge". At what speed does this pertain too? May be a good idea to list how long it takes to charge per bar instead so that you can predict how much mileage you can get given your desired speed. Just a suggestion.

User avatar
patrick0101
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:46 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1823
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:32 pm

marccbr wrote:On the original chart you say "Charging on L2 one mile per 5 minutes of charge". At what speed does this pertain too? May be a good idea to list how long it takes to charge per bar instead so that you can predict how much mileage you can get given your desired speed. Just a suggestion.
I agree, it is confusing since there are so many types of "miles" on the chart. I think %SOC rates would be more clear.
Last edited by patrick0101 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Pat
SLe VIN 1823 reserved 4/20/10, delivered 5/18/11
1998 Chevy S10EV (Feb 2007 - May 8th 2011)
4kW Solar PV '07, 12kW in '15
Oregon Electric Vehicle Association
Occasional PlugInCars.com writer
Occasional WhatDrive.us panelist
Cars with Cords blogger

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: A cool SOC/Range idea

Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:43 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:Here's the range chart I compiled today: ...
Very nice! Any chance you could put this into a PDF link?
g
Why? All you have to do is save it to your desktop and then print it out. Thanks Tony!
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

User avatar
gbarry42
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:48 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Moonlight Beach

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:54 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:7/50
6/60
5/70

Etc
The heart of the elegance is right there. I redid the chart in html so it would fit on the screen of my phone, but I hardly even look at that. Really, the following is good enough for an estimate:
6 miles per bar at 60 MPH
If I want, I can remember that if I go 10 MPH faster or slower I will lose or gain 1 extra mile per bar. And that takes care of figuring out freeway trips. On side roads it's always going to be better than that, but streets don't seem to produce the kind of anxiety the freeway does. And I can still pull it up on my phone if I really watnt to see the chart.
And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.
Second bar at 30,500 mi on 2/7/2015.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:04 pm

Jimmydreams wrote:I think of it like this: ECO will maximize your range if you have little idea of how to do it yourself. If you already know how to maximize an EV's range, D works just as well and will get the same results.
The main reason I like ECO is to save my brakes. I really don't believe that 'D' will be able to do that nor can you obtain the higher m/Kwh because you'll be starting more from the lights. I would like to see someone match my 6.6m/Kwh in 'D'. I rarely have to use the brakes for normal stopping, just sometimes to keep it from 'creeping'.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:21 pm

Caracalover wrote:I have to disagree, Eco mode will actually decrease your range in many situations. The slowing you receive when in ECO mode may force you to use power that you would not have to use if you were in D, or N. I want to call ECO Retard mode, in that it retards your performance. The regen you get from ECO is great when you are going to stop, but it is destructive if you are trying to maintain speed. You will never regain the same amount of energy you are using to get up to speed, but eco mode trys to regain as much as possible whenever it can. In D the retardation is not as great, so many will see better performance while using the same amount of energy. Using your foot to duplicate a Neutral is almost impossible. Try the same thing in ECO and I think you will see the difference, and start using ECO only for extra slowing power and regen. A light foot in D is pretty easy to do, and a whole lot more fun to drive. I use all three modes rather than trying to one foot it.
I disagree in city driving. I use ECO all the time and have achieved 6.7m/Kwh. Can you duplicate that in 'D'? I don't use full regen when slowing, so I don't lose much speed, but it is really great to use instead of the brakes. My brakes will last the life of the car. The brakes on my '90 Toyota Celica GT-S lasted at least 50% longer because I downshifted (auto) to slow the car instead of using the brakes. The LEAF's ECO regen works much better! I can vary it and it is really easy for me to put it in neutral with the pedal. Depending on the speed, it doesn't use many Kw. I've seen zero to 2 on the power meter. Maybe I'm the only one that finds it really easy to find 'N' with the pedal. I'll tell you one more tip: When I'm on city streets and timing the lights, I can put it on CC up to 45 (put it on 46, then drop it one) and it will go into 'N'. When I do have to accelerate (like from a stop sign), with ECO it helps to keep the power meter at one circle.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10642
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:14 pm

Obsolete information deleted.
Last edited by TomT on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:23 pm

mogur wrote:It was for my wife and is based on our long-term average which is 4.5 M/Kwh. SOC just confuses her. She wanted to know how long she needed to charge to add a given amount of miles if she was low on charge at home...
On my next revision, I'll add the charge by bar info...
Here's my current version:
You should have just added your 'charging' info, instead of copying the whole chart which is just the same as Tony's.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:37 pm

patrick0101 wrote:I agree, it is confusing since there are so many types of "miles" on the chart. I think %SOC rates would be more clear.

My wife does not want, or need, anything other than what will aid her in figuring out the distance she can travel at a given configuration.

If we had a REAL "SOC" meter (it's coming !!!), then the chart can be modified to reflect good data. But, all we have to date is the 12 fuel bars.

She wants to drive 30 miles, and return. It's very easy to see that you need 9 bars at 60mph down the freeway, and 11 bars at 70mph. Obviously, a little cushion might be prudent, so 10 to 12 bars.

Now, she also knows that should the need arise, she can slow down to extend the range, also based on the chart. No where did she need to know much math. Almost ZERO. No percentages of charge, no kilowatts / mile, etc.

She can also figure it out without ANY chart just knowing how to count the fuel bars, and remembering 7/50, 6/60, 5/70... and 10/38 for when things aren't going so well !!

I've given the chart to my 9 and 10 year old, and told them how far we need to go, and how many fuel bars, and have them tell me how fast I can drive down the freeway to do it. They haven't failed me yet !
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table

Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:43 pm

marccbr wrote:On the original chart you say "Charging on L2 one mile per 5 minutes of charge". At what speed does this pertain too? May be a good idea to list how long it takes to charge per bar instead so that you can predict how much mileage you can get given your desired speed. Just a suggestion.

Roughly 3.3kw charging, and 4 miles/kw is a bit over 12 miles per hour, or 1 mile every five minutes. It was, and is, a very simple rule of thumb.

Clearly, it can be a whole 'nother chart. But, it's purpose was that if my wife was coming up a few miles short, how long did she need to charge. That was the number I used.

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”