ReFuel 2011 at Laguna Seca in the Leaf (w/pics & video)

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tps said:
This backs up what I've thought and what Nissan has been saying all along. The lack of an active thermal management system in the LEAF's traction pack does not make it an infereor vehicle. Instead, this shows that the LEAF is traction pack is superior because it does not need active thermal management.

+1! :)
 
nader said:
Here is a sample clip to hold you guys over until the full clips finish uploading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcVx4BoNzEM

Excellent... I grew up driving up to CanAm races with my folks, but never got to drive the course. Had to stop from fast-forwarding to the Corkscrew :lol: Very nicely done, and thanks for sharing!

PS: Do you know when the next Refuel is scheduled?
 
tps said:
This backs up what I've thought and what Nissan has been saying all along. The lack of an active thermal management system in the LEAF's traction pack does not make it an infereor vehicle. Instead, this shows that the LEAF is traction pack is superior because it does not need active thermal management.
Of course, it doesn't hurt that the LEAF's motor only pulls a max 80 kW from a 24 kWh pack (3.3C) while the Volt pulls 111 kW from a 16 kWh pack (7C) and the Telsa pulls 185 kW from a 53 kWh pack made up of laptop cells (3.5C). I think the main issue with the Tesla is that the motor overheats, though, not the battery pack. Which shouldn't be that tough a nut to crack - after all, ICE engines with similar output have to deal with 20 times the waste heat! (I do have to wonder if the cooling issues in the Tesla are why we haven't seen one race up Pikes Peak yet?)

Let's strap a bigger motor onto the LEAF and then we'll see how the battery does with passive thermal management. I'm sure that Nissan limited power draw to make sure that the battery lasts as long as possible at the expense of performance.
 
gasmiser1 said:
Nice :) Looks like you guys had fun :cool:

Did the Leaf beat the Volt's time on the track?

Nope. Whoever was driving was pretty good behind the wheel. The Volt is a much sportier ride too.
 
awallis said:
Awsome job. I'm so jealous!

Are you pointing at Tesla's that are dropping off the track because they are overheating?

Pointing out the window to the left or right gives the driver behind you the right to pass. Pointing straight up let's others know you are exiting the track.
 
nader said:
Nope. Whoever was driving was pretty good behind the wheel. The Volt is a much sportier ride too.
What kind of lap times were the Volts posting? Were they disqualified if the range extender came on? :)
 
drees said:
...I think the main issue with the Tesla is that the motor overheats, though, not the battery pack. Which shouldn't be that tough a nut to crack - after all, ICE engines with similar output have to deal with 20 times the waste heat!...

I have seen Tesla Roadsters overheat the motor, the battery pack, and the PEM (Power Electronics Module.)
The motor and PEM are air cooled, so that is why the Leaf (with a liquid cooled motor and inverter) has some advantage there.
Even with liquid cooling, the Roadster battery can sometimes overheat because it is outputting more power, and they also have to be more careful with those laptop cells which can have catastrophic problems if overheated too much.
Note, all of these overheat conditions are monitored and managed. When a Roadster decides to stop racing due to an overheat alert it is because the system is starting to limit power because it detects that things are getting risky. So they aren't having a serious problem, but rather an intentional safety measure kicked in.


By the way, they are opposites in this way:
Roadster has liquid cooled battery, but air cooled motor and inverter.
Leaf has liquid cooled motor and inverter, but (passive) air cooled battery.


The Leaf claims to get away with no active battery cooling by having a more inherently stable and robust battery chemistry.
In a few years we can test these claims to see how well they are holding up.

By the way, newer Tesla Roadsters added another cooling fan for the PEM, and a better air-conditioner (which can cool the batteries), and better ducting for the motor cooling, so they have been making some improvements, but they are somewhat incremental. I recall hearing Tesla folks saying that the Roadster isn't sold as a track car, and it isn't a great top speed car (on the Autobahn for instance.)

Their next model (Model S) will have a liquid cooled motor and inverter which should take care of that sort of concern.
 
Nader you're featured in allcarselectric.com check it out. Great job!!!!

http://www.allcarselectric.com/news/1062390_nissan-leaf-turns-laps-at-laguna-seca-video
 
mwalsh said:
tps said:
This backs up what I've thought and what Nissan has been saying all along. The lack of an active thermal management system in the LEAF's traction pack does not make it an infereor vehicle. Instead, this shows that the LEAF is traction pack is superior because it does not need active thermal management.

+1! :)

+2. :roll:

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/tesla-ceo-nissans-leaf-battery-is-primitive/
Musk commented that the LEAF battery pack uses a “much more primitive level of technology” compared with the sophistication of even Tesla’s first prototype.
This comes down mainly to the thermal management system, or the technology used to keep the battery within a healthy temperature range. Tesla uses what Musk described as active liquid thermal control, while the LEAF pack uses an air cooling system. As a result, the LEAF pack will have temperatures “all over the place,” causing it to suffer “huge degradation” in cold environments and basically “shut off” in hot environments, claimed Musk.
 
Added links to in-car footage during the warm up session to the first post. The forum won't let me embed Vimeo files unfortunately so you'll have to click the link.
 
tps said:
This backs up what I've thought and what Nissan has been saying all along. The lack of an active thermal management system in the LEAF's traction pack does not make it an infereor vehicle. Instead, this shows that the LEAF is traction pack is superior because it does not need active thermal management.
This is something I've always said. Ford & GM have inferior batteries that need cooling.
 
nader said:
Added links to in-car footage during the warm up session to the first post. The forum won't let me embed Vimeo files unfortunately so you'll have to click the link.
What’s not on the video is during nader’s time trial run, all the course workers flaging drivers onto the track at turn 10, turned to watch him come down from the corkscrew through turn 9, 10, then onto the front stretch, tires at full howl. When he disappeared behind the pit row garages, they were all looking at each other in disbelief. And a group of spectators argued that “It can’t be an electric car”.

An impressive bit of driving!
 
nader said:
gasmiser1 said:
Nice :) Looks like you guys had fun :cool:

Did the Leaf beat the Volt's time on the track?

Nope. Whoever was driving was pretty good behind the wheel. The Volt is a much sportier ride too.
Nader - thanks ever so much for posting the write-up and the video. It looks like you had a blast too! (From the looks of things, you've been around the track a time or two yourself. I was watching your hands - I'd say that you're "pretty good behind the wheel" yourself. ;) )
 
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