July 16 Survey Email

Interesting new survey from Nissan regarding battery warranty.

I think they are upset with the Volt 8 year announcement. Looks like they had been planning on 5 years and want to gauge user acceptance.

eta: oops. corrected date as pointed out by drees.

Have you received your Nissan LEAF Battery Warranty Survey

I have,and just completed it.

Lots and lots of questions about the effect the warranty will have on your purchase/lease decision.

Mostly comparing 5 year/60,000 mile; 8 year/80,000 and 10 year/100,000

also several questions about the option of an extended warranty on the battery (at a 'reasonable' price).

Let's hear your responses.

Think you meant July, but yes, I just filled out the same one.

I can't imagine that they expected the Volt to have anything less than an 8-year 100k mi warranty on the battery - they are required to provide that warranty by law since the car is a hybrid.

Another thread here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=783&p=11117#p11117

It is mostly a battery survey, so this might be a better forum for it. Anyone want to merge threads?

Very interesting survey. The battery warranty is going to be key to brisk sales. If they go for 5/60,000 the extended warranty better not be too much or they will lose a lot of sales. The official announcement about the battery warranty will probably be one of the key determinants about whether I will purchase a LEAF, or jump ship for the volt.

I got it and my response for obvious reasons was that I want longer battery warranty for no extra charge

It's interesting that some questions asked how different battery warranty periods would affect your opinion of Nissan in general, not just the Leaf.

Also, they finally got around to asking demographic information. I would have expected that in the reservation process.

This is a very interesting & revealing survey. So, from the survey, I'd guess
- The battery warranty is for 5 years
- They are trying to decide whether to offer extra warranty for extra money

Interesting survey. Looks like Nissan is searching for the "sweet spot" for their battery warranty. A long enough term not to lose customers for the Leaf, and short enough to limit liability. The concept of charging for an extended warranty seems like a middle ground that allows flexibility for many buyers.

Just filled mine out, too.

For me, the warranty period is the difference between buying and leasing --

5 or 6 years / 60,000 - No option, must lease. I'm going to average 20k miles per year and I could not afford an expensive replacement battery in 4 or 5 of a 60 month loan.

8 years / 100,000 - Could roll the dice on a 60 month loan.

10 years / 150,000 - If battery is warrantied for 75% capacity after 10 years, I buy.

But even at the 5 yr / 60,000 level, I'm still getting a Leaf - I will just lease it.

Juiced said:

Interesting survey. Looks like Nissan is searching for the "sweet spot" for their battery warranty. A long enough term not to lose customers for the Leaf, and short enough to limit liability. The concept of charging for an extended warranty seems like a middle ground that allows flexibility for many buyers.

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Yup. I said I would be willing to pay $500 extra to get the 8/100,000 warranty, but no more. If they don't have enough confidence in their pack to stand behind it for a longer period, I won't be too confident either. I think this all comes down to the fact that they are driving the pack too hard (using 80-90% of capacity to get the 100 mile range?) and don't have active thermal management of the battery like the Volt does.

It all comes down to final pricing for the Volt and the mileage in charge sustaining mode to make the final decision about which car to purchase. I was 100% for the Leaf and had pretty much decided not to get the Volt, but may swing back the other way when all of the information is out. Probably will have to have both cars out for a few months to get the real story on battery mileage for Volt and Leaf, and gas mileage in CS mode for the Volt. I love my brothers 2010 Prius with real world mileage of 52 MPG since he purchased it. Just want to get a car that uses even less gas and will still work for me.

I didn't receive the battery survey, but did it indicate what conditions would be covered by the battery warranty? For example, how will one know if their battery isn't performing within specification? Range would not be a good test because of so many other variables that affect range. For example, "I could go from my home to my work and back (50 miles RT) when I bought the Leaf, and now 2 years later I can't make it back home" Is the battery performing to specification?

I'm sure that the warranty doesn't only cover complete battery failure so there should be some way of knowing whether the battery is performing as it should, with some allowance for a small amount of detoriation over time.

Another factor to consider is how much a replacement battery pack would cost at the time the Leaf sales begin, and how much is it projected to cost at the end of the warranty period. ICE vehicles normally have a longer warranty on the powertrain. In the Leaf, would a battery be considered part of the "powertrain"?

It's interesting that if the Leaf has only a 5 year warranty on the battery, that this warranty period is about the same as a lead acid battery in an ICE vehicle.

Took the survey. I was actually surprised that they did not ask whether or under what certain conditions I would switch from lease to buy (as discussed above and in other threads). Nissan should be concerned about the possibly large number of lease returns which would require the dealer (or Nissan) to replace the battery or certify it for x additional time/miles before re-leasing or selling.

Frank said:

I didn't receive the battery survey, ...

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Check your junk mail. It comes from "[email protected]" - not Nissan directly.

LEAFer said:

Took the survey. I was actually surprised that they did not ask whether or under what certain conditions I would switch from lease to buy (as discussed above and in other threads). Nissan should be concerned about the possibly large number of lease returns which would require the dealer (or Nissan) to replace the battery or certify it for x additional time/miles.

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I think they don't care - may be they even prefer leases. Remember they wanted to lease the battery - and would have but for the tax credit problems.

IMO, the entire survey is highly dependent on the replacement cost of the battery in 5-8 years, which isn't even mentioned in the survey, and which we have no good numbers for yet. The survey results will be colored by each individual's idea on what they think the replacement cost should be and is likely to be. If in that time frame it is <$4k (or insert your idea of reasonable cost here), many would consider it a wear item and/or even an upgrade (maybe 2nd/3rd generation batteries with more capacity or longer life will be available by then). The only way a warranty REALLY matters is if the batteries wear out very quickly (less than 5 years) and/or cost A LOT to replace (say $8k). If that is the case, not many would touch it with a 10ft pole with any less than 8 year 100,000 mile warranty, if not, 5 year 60,000 mile is probably enough for most and 8 year would only be a confidence booster. Also, if it does cost a lot and/or wear out quickly, does the replacement have an all-new warranty? The survey didn't ask anything about any of these issues.

Yes, we need a lot more information before real monitary decisions can be made.

Right, how does one find out that one or two cells (or modules with 4 cells each) are getting "weak" and are limiting the battery pack's performance?

Will the on-board BMS tell or warn us?

kballs said:

The only way a warranty REALLY matters is if the batteries wear out very quickly (less than 5 years) and/or cost A LOT to replace (say $8k). If that is the case, not many would touch it with a 10ft pole with any less than 8 year 100,000 mile warranty....

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Or they would lease the car.

The survey didn't ask anything about any of these issues.

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I don't see how a survey could have addressed battery cost issue in 5 years.

In the survey, the minimum you could choose for 1-year battery-function loss was 5%.

What do they know about their battery that they are not telling us?

And, with no estimates fot "cost of repair (or replacement)", it was difficult to give good answers.

Hard to evaluate the lease without the "mileage/usage" penalties and the Residual for buyout.

garygid said:

And, with no estimates fot "cost of repair (or replacement)", it was difficult to give good answers.

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I wonder whether they are ever going to tell us (i.e. in the next couple of years). They don't need to ...