LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
At 10 cents a kWh, that would be 75 cents out of the roughly $2.06 a gallon of gasoline is going for today. Not seein it.
evnow said:Further out of 100 barrels that go into a refinery only 73 barrels of transportation fluids come out.
LTLFTcomposite said:At 10 cents a kWh, that would be 75 cents out of the roughly $2.06 a gallon of gasoline is going for today. Not seein it.
And after all, oil refineries are no candidates for LEED green building certificates.
It takes about 7.5 kwh of electric power to refine a gallon of gasoline. An electric car can go 25 miles on that much power. So your conventional gasoline car is already consuming just as much electricity as my electric car. — BBHY
So, as a nation, we use 140 kWh of electric to produce 1300 kWh of IC fuel to go 760 miles, even if some cars use more and others use less.
So we, as a people, could get the 700 miles of transport without any further expenditure of energy, and still keep the barrel of oil in the ground, thus avoiding its expense, the oil wars needed to obtain and defend it, the air, ground and water pollution and the health problems it causes.
indyflick said:LTLFTcomposite said:At 10 cents a kWh, that would be 75 cents out of the roughly $2.06 a gallon of gasoline is going for today. Not seein it.
For very large industrial electricity consumption the rates are more like 4 to 5 cents a kWh. Todays spot prices for Palo Verde, firm on-peak was 4.12 cents a kWh. These refineries are typically the electrical companies largest customers, so they get the best pricing.
Refining costs are presently about 40 cents per gallon of gasoline. I suspect the bulk of that goes to electricity and NG.
Rik said:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
Natural gas is used to fire heaters and to produce the electricity and steam that oil refineries use.AndyH said:What other sources of energy are also used?Rik said:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
Rik said:Natural gas is used to fire heaters and to produce the electricity and steam that oil refineries use.AndyH said:What other sources of energy are also used?Rik said:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
A byproduct of oil refining is a light hydrocarbon fuel gas that is also burned in refineries, offsetting some of the need for natural gas.
Rik said:Natural gas is used to fire heaters and to produce the electricity and steam that oil refineries use.AndyH said:What other sources of energy are also used?Rik said:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
A byproduct of oil refining is a light hydrocarbon fuel gas that is also burned in refineries, offsetting some of the need for natural gas.
Hmmm... we don't normally think if it that way so I'm not sure.evnow said:Yes - thats why we should really be talking about energy used rather than electricity used.
Rik, do you know what the kwh equivalent energy that is used for refining ?
Rik said:Hmmm... we don't normally think if it that way so I'm not sure.
When my work computer comes back from the IT ICU I'll try to estimate that.evnow said:Rik said:Hmmm... we don't normally think if it that way so I'm not sure.
Would you know how much NG is used on the avg ?
See appendix table 7 for all fuel inputs.Average refinery energy consumed increases by 47%, from approximately 522,000 to 770,000 British thermal units/barrel crude refined, as oil input gravity-plus-sulfur rises from 138 to 143 kg/b.
This is a complicated issue to assess. Some of these "fuels consumed" are byproducts from oil refining. It's not clear whether or not they are counting hydrogen twice, both as something that is consumed by refining and also as something produced from natural gas. Also, most hydrogen in oil refineries is used as a reactant in hydroprocessing and not as a "fuel consumed". Residual fuel oil and petroleum coke are produced by oil refineries far in excess of what they consume.evnow said:Here is a useful document I found.
http://www.cbecal.org/pdf/CBE09RefineryGHGemissionsfmdirtycrude.pdf
Rik said:This is a complicated issue to assess. Some of these "fuels consumed" are byproducts from oil refining. It's not clear whether or not they are counting hydrogen twice, both as something that is consumed by refining and also as something produced from natural gas. Also, most hydrogen in oil refineries is used as a reactant in hydroprocessing and not as a "fuel consumed". Residual fuel oil and petroleum coke are produced by oil refineries far in excess of what they consume.evnow said:Here is a useful document I found.
http://www.cbecal.org/pdf/CBE09RefineryGHGemissionsfmdirtycrude.pdf
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