Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:08 pm

Volusiano wrote:You can always switch to Neutral, can't you? Or if it's not a long enough period to want to be in neutral, you just feather the gas pedal such that your energy meter show 0 consumed and 0 regen.
Yes, you can just switch to neutral. I actually do this going downhill on the 405 from the top of Sepulveda Pass. Going South, I can coast for about 5 miles at 55 MPH or greater, and feathering the accelerator pedal is way too much trouble. I switch into D when I get to about 62 MPH so I can recoup some of the energy. The North side is steeper, so I switch to D and just leave it there once I get to 60 MPH. Still, I would like to have a button to toggle the regen in ECO mode on and off.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

User avatar
abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:11 pm

It is commendable that Stoaty and others are seeking to do all they can for the good of the environment shared by all humanity. There are plenty of occasions on which I practice those hypermiling recommendations, mainly to extend the range of the LEAF on our longer drives.

But I'm not convinced that impeding the flow of traffic is worthwhile just for the sake of saving some kWh. I'm not just saying this because of "haters" out there. At this point, we are the ambassadors for a new way of driving, using electricity. Some of us, like my family with our Christian-themed license plate frames, use our cars to promote other causes as well. Why leave people with a bad taste? The LEAF can be a zippy car. I figure that, range permitting, we might as well show other drivers the joy of instant torque and near-silent acceleration! By encouraging EV adoption, this seems likely to have greater overall environmental benefits.

Also, I would believe 80% regen efficiency, if you subtract aerodynamic and friction losses first, before arriving at a figure for the amount of kinetic energy available to be captured.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

ericsf
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:33 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0428
Location: San Francisco

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:21 pm

I am pretty sure I saw that 30% number on MNL
Don't believe everything you read on the internet :lol:

Seriously, I do agree 80% would be the maximum efficiency one could expect. Do you have a thread link where this was discussed?

Also I am trying to think of a practical way to measure this and put this to rest. Any idea?
SL w/ QC (3/5/2011) - 11bars on 1/23/2014 @ 54k miles - 10 on 12/23/2014 @ 73k - 9 on 10/5/2015 @ 85k - 8 on 7/3/2016 @ 96k

User avatar
abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:26 pm

Here's what I posted in another thread:
abasile wrote:On our 5000' descent, we average probably 45 mph over 16 miles, and pick up very roughly 1.5 bars of regen (call it 2.5kWh). Assume the potential energy is 1.37kWh/1000', or 6.8kWh total. At 0.2kWh/mile, we use 3.2kWh to go the 16 miles [on flat ground, which gives us the aero+friction losses]. That leaves 3.4kWh to be consumed by braking. Assuming only regen braking and no friction braking, that would give us a regen efficiency of very roughly 2.5kWh/3.4kWh, or 74%. This is where we need an SOC gauge for more precision!
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

91040
Posts: 1030
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:31 pm

Stoaty wrote: 8) Don't let off the accelerator enough to invoke regen unless you need to slow down. This just wastes power unnecessarily.
I follow the same maxims when maximizing my range though I usually drive the freeways at 60mph and accelerate at 20KW. #8 has been the hardest for me to get used to.
1st Capacity Bar loss 30k mi 16mo
2nd- 49k mi 25.5mo 51.5Ah
3rd- 73k mi 36.5mo 46.9Ah
4th- 86.5k mi 43mo 42.6Ah
5th- 101k mi 50.5mo 38.4Ah, end 36.1Ah
New Battery 9/28/15 104k mi 66.1Ah
1st- 160.5k mi 34mo 54Ah
2nd- 184.4k mi 53mo 49Ah

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:06 pm

My coast down technique is to slowly let off the gas pedal and as the power nears zero, I pull it into neutral. As I approach a stop, I put it in D or ECO again, depending on how poorly I judged the stop. If I over do it, it's right back to Neutral, and then D or ECO again until stopped.

Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:19 pm

abasile wrote:But I'm not convinced that impeding the flow of traffic is worthwhile just for the sake of saving some kWh.
I agree 100% and never impede the flow of traffic. However, here is my definition of impeding the flow of traffic, and what is not impeding the flow of traffic (although others may not like it):

Impeding the flow of traffic - driving significantly slower than the flow of traffic on a 2 lane road. Example: driving 30 MPH up the Mount Baldy Road, and refusing to use turnouts so other cars can pass.

Not impeding the flow of traffic:

1) Driving 52 MPH in the right hand lane of the freeway. Those who want to go faster can use the other 3 lanes. I do this all the time, and often find that I have to either slow down or temporarily go into the next lane to pass a truck going slower than I am (on the way up to the Sepulveda Pass).

2) Driving 25 MPH in a 35 MPH zone when there is a stop light 50-100 yards away that is red. The flow of traffic is being impeded--by the stop light, not by me. Some prefer to race up to the light and eagerly wait for it to change; I do not.

3) Slowing to 35-40 MPH on the freeway when cars are stopped 150 yards in front of me. The stopped cars are impeding the flow of traffic, not me. As a matter of fact, if I can avoid stopping by going a bit slower, I will be helping to break up the rolling wave of stopped cars that is likely to ripple down the freeway.

Note that I have run into a few drivers (not that many, actually) who think it is their God-given right to race up to stopped traffic in #2 and #3 scenarios, and that I am impeding the flow of traffic. Very occasionally I run into someone who thinks that driving 52 MPH in the right hand lane is a personal affront to them, and they show their displeasure with various gestures. Neither of these happen very often, and I have noticed more people than in the past who seem to realize that it is the traffic holding them up, not a single "bad" car.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:24 pm

Volusiano wrote:The question is what is the optimum speed for driving? Somebody said the Nissan mentioned that 38 mph is the optimum speed for the Leaf. It that true?
No, 38mph isn't the best. I drove a 15 mile loop @ 15mph without A/C in over 100* heat and achieved over 9.1m/kW h. Every few miles or so the efficiency increased, so maybe I could have hit 9.5 after 30 miles which X21=200 miles on a 100% charge!
Tony, I believe, claims 12.5mph is the optium speed and since I didn't go lower than 15, he could be right, but he would have to achieve at least 9.1 and he didn't, so I'm doubting the lower speed.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:26 pm

LEAFfan wrote: Tony, I believe, claims 12.5mph is the optium speed and since I didn't go lower than 15, he could be right, but he would have to achieve at least 9.1 and he didn't, so I'm doubting the lower speed.

I used the hyper accurate technique of driving 15mph, then 10mph, noting no significant difference, and proclaiming the middle, 12.5mph.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:40 pm

Stoaty wrote:For those like me who want to conserve as much energy as possible I offer my recipe--tested over 2,000 miles--for getting the highest Mile per KWh from the Leaf. I have a lifetime average of 5.8 miles per KWh (dash reading)
5) Accelerate gently from stops (usually up to 10 KW, occasionally up to 20 KW)
7) Once you are up to cruising speed, feather the accelerator so that you are either coasting (zero on energy screen) or using just a slight amount of power to keep speed constant
13) Stoaty has rarely used AC, partly because it isn't that hot, and partly because when it got up to 95 degrees (low humidity) he used that as an opportunity to acclimate to the heat--which paid off on a recent backpacking trip. Depending on the temperature, humidity, your heat tolerance, etc. this may not work for you.
Any other eco-obsessive drivers out there? 8-)
13. I do most of those techniques too, but in 110-115 humidified (monsoon season) heat (we broke an all time record of over 34 days [could soon be 36 of 110 or higher]), I sometimes use the A/C. Otherwise, my m/kW h are in the 6's.
5. If no traffic, I can accelerate up to speed fairly fast (takes practice) using neutral bubbles, but if someone is behind me, I can do it much faster using only ONE bubble. It isn't necessary to use two or 20kW.
7. To stay in the neutral bubble and to keep your speed constant once up to speed, you can use the CC by going one mph over what you want, then push down quickly on the button and it will put you in the neutral bubble.
And I agree wholeheartedly with you about the not impeding traffic explanation. I can drive this way without impeding any traffic also. Even though I have PVs and the driving is basically free, I still like to drive this way for the reasons you have stated. :mrgreen:
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”