TomT
Well-known member
The new 2012 Versa appears very similar to the 2011/2012 Leaf, both in looks and layout. I suspect that there is a fair amount of commonality.
yoyofella said:
LEAF -vs- Versa
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TomT
Well-known member
It's an optional upgrade over the primered metal floor pan...
EVDRIVER said:
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This video has been posted before, but please pay attention to the rolling script starting at 2:50. All of the cars assembled in Oppama seem to be based on the same platform, and must have similar or identical mounting points and other elements.TomT said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saPWgjsRcAQ&t=170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IBELEAF
Well-known member
Why do people have the need to compare to Versa? I think Leaf is much closer to Lexus CT200 with its luxury features, performance and size then a budget Versa.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/exterior.aspx?c=0&i=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&tb=0&dt=0&v=t112640&v=t113043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/exterior.aspx?c=0&i=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&tb=0&dt=0&v=t112640&v=t113043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EVDRIVER
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IBELEAF said:
The LEAF quality and function of the features is in no way comparable to a Lexus or even assembly quality of a Yaris, owned all three. The LEAF is an econo box with a slapped together NAV, lots of cheap materials, and poor quality construction with the appearance of a luxury car. I would bet the Versa is a better car even though the LEAF is mostly a modified ICE. The LEAF is not a luxury car and in no way a ground-up EV as Nissan would like to make people think. Total Nissan BS! There are so many modified ICE parts that no pure EV would have, they are there because they rushed it to market and anyone that has taken the car apart or knows EVs is aware of this. People should enjoy their LEAFs but let's stop glorifying it into something it is not. Nissan cut costs to compensate for the pack cost or they are just cheap. Likely both.
TomT
Well-known member
+1 (Which is not to say that I don't love it, but let us not fool ourselves in to believing that it is something that it is not.)
EVDRIVER said:
EVDRIVER said:
EVDRIVER, your frequently cynical, negativity towards the Leaf is growing a little thin.
I am all for speaking your mind, and "telling it like it is", but I think you are starting to "cross the line" at times.
Anyways, I ended up in a rental Versa on a recent trip, so I had a chance to compare the driving experience. I would no way say the Versa is a better car (other than for driving long distances due to gas station convenience). The engine and transmission are somewhat rough, and make it a noisy abomination compared to the serene tranquility of a Leaf drive. The Leaf is no sports car, but it handles better than the Versa due to the lower center of gravity. The Leaf interior is not my usual "cup of tea", but I still found it more pleasant, modern, and user friendly than the Versa.
Clearly Nissan tried to keep costs down on the Leaf, but it does have a lot of things upgraded from a "bottom of the line" vehicle.
TomT
Well-known member
Test drive a new 2012 Versa. It is a dramatically better vehicle than the 2011 and a much better direct comparison to the Leaf...
TEG said:
IBELEAF
Well-known member
Personally, I am fine with Leaf's quality, it's not much different then a Sentra I previously owned. Yes there are some cost cutting measures done by Nissan, but nothing surprising and there is just too much exaggeration on this forum. I am also not comparing Leaf to an entire Lexus brand, but limiting to the car that I was considering prior to getting Leaf which happened to be Lexus CT200. I've driven CT200 on several occasions and it's really an entry level luxury hybrid car with better quality carpet, sunroof, leather with seat warmers and a few extra buttons at a few grand more then Leaf.
I had several major priorities for buying a new car:
+Hybrid or EV
+Minimum maintenance
+Decent performance
+Luxury features (HIDs, Nav...)
+Quiet
+Must like dashboard
Optional:
-Electric/Leather seats
Versa failed to meet any of my criteria where CT200 and Leaf met almost all...
Finally, it wasn't a priority, but it just happened to be the case... I've given a ride in Leaf to many friends and even strangers and they all came out impressed with what it had to offer for an electric car and CT200 would've been a cool hybrid to show off as well, try to impress anyone with a Versa...
I had several major priorities for buying a new car:
+Hybrid or EV
+Minimum maintenance
+Decent performance
+Luxury features (HIDs, Nav...)
+Quiet
+Must like dashboard
Optional:
-Electric/Leather seats
Versa failed to meet any of my criteria where CT200 and Leaf met almost all...
Finally, it wasn't a priority, but it just happened to be the case... I've given a ride in Leaf to many friends and even strangers and they all came out impressed with what it had to offer for an electric car and CT200 would've been a cool hybrid to show off as well, try to impress anyone with a Versa...
How is it better or even direct comparison? Budget looking dashboard with small nav screen, same lacking performance and most importantly the gas economy of hatchback (34/28) is less what competitors have to offer, not to mention it's not a hybrid or electric... If I were to buy another econo ICE box I would much rather go for new Impreza with AWD that's rated 36/27.TomT said:
Herm
Well-known member
If you do a feature per feature comparison, and adjust for options, between a loaded Versa SL w CVT and a Leaf there is a BEV premium of about $15k, $7.5k once you take the tax credit into account. $7.5k will buy you about 56k miles of driving in a Versa (30mpg combined, assuming $4 a gallon of gasoline). Not taking maintenance into account either. That $7500 fed tax credit really makes a difference.
Check it out at http://www.truedelta.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Check it out at http://www.truedelta.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IBELEAF
Well-known member
It doesn't get any more budget then a base Versa and people who look to buy a budget car would not consider an electric, but lets look at fully loaded 2012 Versa SL. MSRP of it with budget navi is 19,800 and then you have tax (10% in my case), so it brings it up to roughly $22k
For Leaf SL I paid $25.5k OTD with no tax and after incentive, so essentially the price difference is $3.5k for me and for that I get much better performance, great looking dashboard, better nav system, LED headlights and most importantly it's EV. For 2012 model obviously the difference is going to be more, but then you do get additional features as well, still below your $7.5k estimate.
For Leaf SL I paid $25.5k OTD with no tax and after incentive, so essentially the price difference is $3.5k for me and for that I get much better performance, great looking dashboard, better nav system, LED headlights and most importantly it's EV. For 2012 model obviously the difference is going to be more, but then you do get additional features as well, still below your $7.5k estimate.
yoyofella
Well-known member
Herm said:
Hi Herm, I think you mean: http://www.truedelta.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I agree with you on the $15k delta for a comparably equipped Versa. This number is important because the EV bashers sometimes quote the $11k baseline prices when comparing with the Leaf, which is not realistic.
It'll be interesting to see the IIHS crash rating of the 2012 Versa to see the rest of the car has caught up to the Leaf. The 2011 Versa only got an acceptable rating, while the 2011 Leaf received the best possible score. This could be very important for many car buyers.
below is the IIHS crash rating for the Versa, the rating goes from good, acceptable, marginal, and poor. Bare in mind the Leaf scored "good" on every category.
Versa IIHS crash rating:
Frontal:
Overall Good
Chest Good
Head/Neck Acceptable
Left Leg/Foot Good
Restraints Good
Right Leg/Foot Good
Structure/safety cage Good
Side:
Overall Acceptable
Driver Head Protection Good
Driver Head and Neck Good
Driver Pelvis/Leg Marginal
Driver Torso Marginal
Rear Passenger Head Protection Good
Rear Passenger Head and Neck Good
Rear Passenger Pelvis/Leg Good
Rear Passenger Torso Good
Structure/safety cage Good
TomT
Well-known member
You guys are lucky not to have to pay tax on an EV. We in California (and most other states) don't get that perk...
What's going to be interesting is to see what happens with BEV sales once all the various credits dry up (which they certainly will eventually)...
What's going to be interesting is to see what happens with BEV sales once all the various credits dry up (which they certainly will eventually)...
IBELEAF said:
IBELEAF
Well-known member
TomT said:
You had the $5k rebate plus some other rebates AFAIK, so who is lucky?
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I think you make a really good point with this statement. There is mounting evidence that the Leaf was not a clean-sheet design, for one reason or another, and to say otherwise is marketing voodoo.EVDRIVER said:
I'm not looking at the Leaf as a $35K vehicle, and I have adjusted my expectations in that regard. Given what happened in the last decade or so, I didn't think that I would be driving a modern EV this soon and at this price. For that, I give Nissan major credit. I am a bit disappointed with their one-size-fits all approach, but they are a mass manufacturer and perhaps I shouldn't expect otherwise.
There are some glaring cosmetic issues as well, many of then have been raised on this thread and elsewhere. Take the plastic plug on the steering column to cover the Versa ignition key mount for example. It's noticeable, and it's one of the things I didn't like during my test drive a few months ago. Cheap carpet and the thin paint would be other pain points. I don't expect an Aston Martin, but all this signals certain lack of attention to detail.
I don't know about you, but I would have appreciated at least 25% more pack capacity, and had Nissan offered several battery size options like Tesla will with their Model S, I would be a lot happier as a customer. Nissan stated several times, that weight was the gating factor here, but I have hard time believing that. Twelve modules would add only about 120 to 150 pounds of weight, including enclosure, wiring and other parts. Based on the observations voiced on this forum, it's more likely that they would not have been able to fit more modules under the seats and since the Leaf is not a clean-sheet design, it would have been hard to accommodate a larger pack in the chassis. It's speculation at this point, but I would consider that the single largest drawback of the Versa legacy. I can live with cheap carpet and thin paint, more battery capacity is really what I want the most.
I think we all understand product design well enough to appreciate the compromises Nissan had to make to bring the Leaf to market. I'm not a fan of the Versa, and I have driven it more than once as a Hertz rental. I am willing to accept an EV derived from the same platform however, because of the unique experience it offers and I hope that there will be more EVs under $50K to choose from down the road.
redLEAF
Well-known member
As a few others have mentioned here, although I didn't drive them back to back; today I dropped off my VW at my dealership for service and as they were to have it all day, they provided a loaner (was actually an Enterprise rental) which turned out to be a mid-level 2011 Versa (it had A/C and power windows but steel wheels so think it was a 1.8L S). Not bad but lot's of hard plastic (nowhere near as nice an interior as my Mazda3 GT) but not bad for it's price range. As my drive to work from the dealership is a bit longer I was curious how it handled some bad pavement, etc. and it really did OK; a little bit of pitching but not as excessive as my son's smart coupe. The cloth seats were decent, steering wheel just OK (again hard plastic) and the door armrest unusually soft (I could see these wearing out quickly) ... acceleration did not feel anywhere near as brisk as the Mazda3 (of course my '06 is a 2.3L) and that drone of the 4 cyl. was really apparent (in comparison to the eerie silence of the LEAF). The car does have good room overall so having the LEAF of a much similar size should be fine -- after all Nissan needs to save some money by using some components from the Versa parts bin but I think there will be even more comparisons when the newest Versa arrives. The stark black interior of this Versa already is 'hard' compared to the lightness of the LEAF so color I'm sure helps in the LEAF's case --- lighter color appears to weigh less, softer tone, etc. I think Nissan has done enough to differentiate the LEAF and Versa but there will always be comparisons.
rawhog
Well-known member
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Herm
Well-known member
surfingslovak said:
The Leaf is what it is, just remember that battery pack is not free. A lousy extra kwh of battery capacity will buy you the 4 cylinder engine used in the Versa, just to give you an idea of the scale of costs. Nissan made a decision on the battery size, time will tell if its appropiate.. I think battery size was chosen to allow a life of 10-15 years use under average usage conditions.
What body panels are interchangeable with the Versa?, probably none.. we know it uses suspension components from different Nissan models besides the Versa. We know the unitbody chassis is not from the Versa either, but perhaps parts of the design are shared (probably the rear is copied exactly from the Versa chassis).
I believe there is still some room to stretch the battery pack to the rear, before it runs into the torque tube of the rear suspension.
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