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garygid
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Posts: 12469
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:39 pm

231 raw SOC would be 82.1%

It looks like the lower the temperature, the higher the SOC numbers (for 80% or 100% charging).
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

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evnow
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: I want my 281!

Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:45 pm

garygid wrote:231 raw SOC would be 82.1%

It looks like the lower the temperature, the higher the SOC numbers (for 80% or 100% charging).
But I only get 276 (once 279) @ 100%.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

GregH
Posts: 860
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:16 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 26967
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:07 pm

We should probably stick to the raw # wherever possible.. Only the car knows what 80% and 100% are. Assuming 281# is 100% is probably not very useful... For all we know someone might be getting 282# and as we've seen many are now getting as low as 271# at "100%". We also don't know what the car considers to be 0%. From my last full charge with 80% at 224# and 100% at 271# I'd calculate 0% to be around 36# which is probably around the point the guess-o-meter goes blank with the super low battery warning. I'm not sure we've ever seen the car functioning below 4# either so saying 0% is 0# also doesn't seem useful.
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
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Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
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garygid
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Posts: 12469
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:28 pm

LBW is 50# (or 49#), shy 18%
VLBW is 25# (or #24), shy 9%

Raw SOC * 100 / 281 = Percent SOC.

Percent SOC * 281 / 100 = raw SOC
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

91040
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:55 pm

The question is whether this raw number is useful in determining the amount of charge we have available to use. It seems that the car does not use it in deciding when to stop charging. So what does it represent and from what is it derived? Is it consistent at the low end of charge or is it as inconsistent as the upper end?

Will tracking any data from the SOC meter help anyone with this?
1st Capacity Bar loss 30k mi 16mo
2nd- 49k mi 25.5mo 51.5Ah
3rd- 73k mi 36.5mo 46.9Ah
4th- 86.5k mi 43mo 42.6Ah
5th- 101k mi 50.5mo 38.4Ah, end 36.1Ah
New Battery 9/28/15 104k mi 66.1Ah
1st- 160.5k mi 34mo 54Ah
2nd- 184.4k mi 53mo 49Ah

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garygid
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:02 am

I believe that there MUST be another measurement that is used to:
1. stop charging
2. stop power usage for driving

Most likely:
1. The cell-pair (of 96) with the HIGHEST voltage hits a Upper-Limit to Stop Charging.
2. The cell-pair with the LOWEST voltage hits a Lower-Limit to stop "driving" the car.

The exact limit values might vary with temperature.

Without these safeguards, the highest (lowest) cell-pair can get damaged by over-charging (over-discharging).

The "SOC" that we are presented with is derived from something, but we are not sure what. We do know that it:
1. "generally" represents the "fullness" of the Battery Pack,
2. that it can (occasionally) indicate more energy at the low end than is actually available,
3. it drops noticably faster at the top end than the energy consumed.

Getting a better warning or estimation of the remaining, usable low-end energy is non-trivial, but that is what (one of the things) we are seeking.

Another important parameter is the battery temperature, its rise as we drive and charge, and its fall as we let the LEAF "rest" and cool.

For example, does parking for 8 hours in the summer sun in AZ produce heating equivalent to the heating of 4 Quick-Charges?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:24 pm

While I don't have any particularly unique information to share, I figure that it never hurts to add another data point or two. I had the use of an SOC meter for about 24 hours, having borrowed tbleakne's unit. Saturday night and Sunday morning, I charged to 100% using L1 with an average ambient temperature in the 60s. The reading within 15 minutes of charge completion was 276. On Sunday we drove about 40 miles (end SOC ~ 57%), then charged up to 100% at tbleakne's house on L2, with 70ish temps. The reading immediately following charge completion was 275. We've put on over 4500 miles in over 4.5 months of ownership.

Also, we had no trouble driving home to the mountains from tbleakne's house. After a total of ~50 miles and 4900 feet of net elevation gain, we ended up with one full bar of charge (and sadly, no SOC meter; I'll have to order a kit). Of course, that required gentle, efficient, somewhat slow driving on the 210 freeway and Highway 330.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: I want my 281!

Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:57 pm

abasile wrote:Also, we had no trouble driving home to the mountains from tbleakne's house. After a total of ~50 miles and 4900 feet of net elevation gain, we ended up with one full bar of charge (and sadly, no SOC meter; I'll have to order a kit).
OT - I am thinking about buying a kit also. What color was the LED on tbleakne's SOC meter. Did it look good with the car? Was it easy to read (even in sunlight)?
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:19 pm

Stoaty wrote:What color was the LED on tbleakne's SOC meter. Did it look good with the car? Was it easy to read (even in sunlight)?
tbleakne's meter is black, with blue LEDs. It blends in well enough, and looks decent. However, it isn't as easy to read as I would prefer, particularly at an angle. Reading it in sunlight is difficult at best. However, at least for myself, I wouldn't consider that a showstopper.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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mwalsh
Posts: 9754
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: I want my 281!

Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:24 pm

Differences last night.....cooler night and charging from over 50% SOC. So I'm going to put it down to pack temps (which is something I've suspected in the past):

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2011 Blue Ocean SL with 87,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
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Ecopia 422+ tires
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