Ford Focus EV

Under-hood picture of the Focus EV is on Facebook today.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...24383835.19897.112397758825635&type=1&theater

Any mention of a quick charge DC input?

TonyWilliams said:

Any mention of a quick charge DC input?

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No - Ford has said Focus won't have a QC port.

evnow said:

TonyWilliams said:

Any mention of a quick charge DC input?

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No - Ford has said Focus won't have a QC port.

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Actually that is "Yes, Ford has said Focus won't have a QC port". It was mentioned in the negative.

palmermd said:

Actually that is "Yes, Ford has said Focus won't have a QC port". It was mentioned in the negative.

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That sounds jarring - may be the difference between the natural language and the artificial SAE.

evnow said:

palmermd said:

Actually that is "Yes, Ford has said Focus won't have a QC port". It was mentioned in the negative.

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That sounds jarring - may be the difference between the natural language and the artificial SAE.

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sorry about that. just joking around. i guess i'm in a weird mood today. something about lack of sleep.

Nope, no TEPCO port of CHADeMo protocol on the Focus Electric since they're agnostic on quick-charge, could go with Type 2 Mode 4 or whatever it was the Europeans are pushing (edit: VDE-AR-E 2623-2-2). Some weird and harder to remember ISO standard.

Anyway, no TEPCO on Focus, no 6.6kW charger on LEAF. No converting CHADeMo to J1772 A/C because that's a waste of A/C to D/C back to A/C.

But what I wanna know is how hard it would be to build a device that was able to speak J1772 up to 240VAC 80A (a little less than 1/3 the power of a true CHADeMo connection) on one end (female) and convert it to CHADeMo with a TEPCO plug on the other. And if one were to use such a device, as it's going nowhere near the current and voltage levels of the standard CHADeMo, would it therefore not degrade the battery greatly to use it daily? I tell you, I'd pay real money for that if I could get the guarantee of no serious degradation of battery life. :S

TimeHorse said:

But what I wanna know is how hard it would be to build a device that was able to speak J1772 up to 240VAC 80A (a little less than 1/3 the power of a true CHADeMo connection) on one end (female) and convert it to CHADeMo with a TEPCO plug on the other...

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You can already find devices with a J1772 inlet and a 240v NEMA outlet (50a, I think). The hard part is getting/making a CHAdeMO charger that can be connected to standard 240v and doesn't cost an arm or leg. Plus the implementation detail of being sure that it doesn't draw more than the J1772 is offering. It wouldn't be cool to blow the breaker on some innocent public Blink or ChargePoint.

davewill said:

TimeHorse said:

But what I wanna know is how hard it would be to build a device that was able to speak J1772 up to 240VAC 80A (a little less than 1/3 the power of a true CHADeMo connection) on one end (female) and convert it to CHADeMo with a TEPCO plug on the other...

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You can already find devices with a J1772 inlet and a 240v NEMA outlet (50a, I think). The hard part is getting/making a CHAdeMO charger that can be connected to standard 240v and doesn't cost an arm or leg. Plus the implementation detail of being sure that it doesn't draw more than the J1772 is offering. It wouldn't be cool to blow the breaker on some innocent public Blink or ChargePoint.

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Well, my main reason is I have a Clipper Creek CS-100 with a 125A breaker in my garage so I'm well-suited to draw up to about 19.6W out of my wall. It'd be awesome for me to plug in and charge in about 90 minutes! Now, that's 1/3 the speed of true CHADeMO and it's unknown if a) CHADeMo can run at that wattage (by either throttling Amps or Volts) and b) if that amount of power will reduce battery life. Plus, I don't think you can time the CHADeMo, but it's be funny if I woke up each morning, walked down to plug my near-empty LEAF in, went back up, took a shower, breakfasted and then when I got to my car it was fully charged.

CHADeMO is a public standard, right? Or is it proprietary and that's why it's unlikely to see the light of day outside of industry?

TimeHorse said:

Well, my main reason is I have a Clipper Creek CS-100 with a 125A breaker in my garage so I'm well-suited to draw up to about 19.6W out of my wall.

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Yes - but you don't have a DC charger ...

I beleive CHADEMO is a direct DC connection to the battery. So voltage is important - and the charger needs to be able to handle all the communication & control for charging.

evnow said:

TimeHorse said:

Well, my main reason is I have a Clipper Creek CS-100 with a 125A breaker in my garage so I'm well-suited to draw up to about 19.6W out of my wall.

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Yes - but you don't have a DC charger ...

I beleive CHADEMO is a direct DC connection to the battery. So voltage is important - and the charger needs to be able to handle all the communication & control for charging.

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Well, that's the crux of it. But why put the charger and its weight in the car when a box in the house wouldn't add any weight. An outdoor housing for such a device would be tricky but not impossible. Getting it from the J1772 directly is the wasteful part since there's no reason to generate a pilot signal if you're just going to generate D/C. But the nice thing about a J1772 to TEPCO is it recognizes that most people are using both to charge an EV. I mean, such a device will probably cost hundreds because it includes the charger and complex, CHADeMO circuity as well as is able to communicate via the Pilot signal what its maximum charge is. I don't know CHADeMO so I don't know how it negotiates charge, or if it negotiates charge. For all we know, it may be impossible because CHADeMO only allows 63kW charging (IIRC). But the good news is J1772 has an upper-bound so we know the Inverter only has to have a maximum capacity of 240VAC 80A since that's all the J1772 spec allows.

Again, I think it's theoretically possible but I'm a Software Engineer, not an EE so I don't know for sure and without the CHADeMO and J1772 specification it's really just speculation.

Do you think the Focus EV will have a longer range than the leaf?

tks in advance

mdh said:

Do you think the Focus EV will have a longer range than the leaf?

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Doubtful - smaller battery pack by 1kWh; 300lbs heavier; and a shell not built for maximum aerodynamic efficiency like the LEAF's is. However, the fine folks from Ford may differ in opinion.

mdh said:

Do you think the Focus EV will have a longer range than the leaf?

tks in advance

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This is what I wrote in another forum ...

Unless EPA has changed the procedure, which would apply to Leaf as well, Focus EV will not get 73 miles.

EPA used the 30% "adjustment" to reduce Leaf's range from above 100 to 73. That is how Volt's 40 mile got reduced too. This was a contentious decision and they may revise it.

Leaf uses about 21 kwh of the battery. That makes it 3.48 m/kWh (for 73 miles).

I think Focus will use about 18.5 kwh (80% of 23 kWh). If somehow Focus EV is as efficient as Leaf, even with 10% more weight, it will get a EPA rating of 64 miles. If it is 5% less efficient, it will get 61 miles.

If Focus uses about 18.5 kwh (90% of 23 kWh), it will get 68/72 miles.

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evnow said:

mdh said:

Do you think the Focus EV will have a longer range than the leaf?

tks in advance

Click to expand...

This is what I wrote in another forum ...

Unless EPA has changed the procedure, which would apply to Leaf as well, Focus EV will not get 73 miles.

EPA used the 30% "adjustment" to reduce Leaf's range from above 100 to 73. That is how Volt's 40 mile got reduced too. This was a contentious decision and they may revise it.

Leaf uses about 21 kwh of the battery. That makes it 3.48 m/kWh (for 73 miles).

I think Focus will use about 18.5 kwh (80% of 23 kWh). If somehow Focus EV is as efficient as Leaf, even with 10% more weight, it will get a EPA rating of 64 miles. If it is 5% less efficient, it will get 61 miles.

If Focus uses about 18.5 kwh (90% of 23 kWh), it will get 68/72 miles.

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thanks so much.. i am tagged to pick up my Leaf this week... struggling with all the new "potential" cars coming on the market.. including the plug in prius. So, it sounds like the leaf will have longer range than the Ford. For me, i think this will be important for resale value...

mdh said:

thanks so much.. i am tagged to pick up my Leaf this week... struggling with all the new "potential" cars coming on the market.. including the plug in prius. So, it sounds like the leaf will have longer range than the Ford. For me, i think this will be important for resale value...

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If you are really worried about resale value, lease the car. In 8 to 10 years (if that is when you want to resell) - the current Leaf/Focus range will be obsolete, just like a 1 MegaPixel camera is now.

evnow said:

In 8 to 10 years (if that is when you want to resell) - the current Leaf/Focus range will be obsolete, just like a 1 MegaPixel camera is now.

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My old 2.1 megapoxel Nikon may be obsolete, but it still takes great photos. Not much resale value. So it will be with the LEAF. It can still be a useful car.

tps said:

My old 2.1 megapoxel Nikon may be obsolete, but it still takes great photos. Not much resale value. So it will be with the LEAF. It can still be a useful car.

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Absolutely. Just like a Windows 3.1 PC will work just fine for certain things, but won't newer software. My old Canon G1 I still have takes very nice photos, but doesn't support larger memeory cards, for eg.

Focus EV isn't ready yet. The demo vehicle still uses velcro !

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/09/ford_motor_co_brings_dont_touc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once formal remarks were completed, the Focus Electric on display proved to be only a locked, non-functional partial mock-up.

One of the vehicle handlers even scolded students and media not to touch what turned out to be a fake door to a charging port because they were messing up the Velcro and tape holding it in place.

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Continue to be disappointed by Ford. Both because I would like to consider the Focus EV and how the lack of competition is not going to get the Leaf to my neck of the woods any sooner.