My L1 ESVE findings.....

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It's not about the money, it's about safety. I haven't looked at the circuits myself, nor am I qualified to do so. But, from everything I've read in the previous threads here about Ingineer's mods it seemed pretty clear that there ARE components rated at 120v in there. So, what I'd like to know (and have yet to hear the OP state, is how running those components over spec or bypassing them can be safe? Or is that we all were misunderstanding and there aren't 120v components in there? How can the OP know when he admits he hasn't depotted the board?
 
jwallace3,

Is this a joke?

It seems to me, from the errors in your posts, that:
1. you do not fully understand the J1772 and NEC 625 standards.
2. you do not fully understand how the Nissan/Panasonic EVSE works.
3. you do not fully understand how electricity works.
4. also, you might be unaware of our "Weekend Project ..." thread
(where Chris has put a lot of good effort into designing,
building, and testing a full-featured EVSE).

If you have something, or anything, working,
why do you not say/show exactly what you did?
 
I have no idea what the factual issues are, but it makes for entertaining reading... My EVSE upgrade works fine, but so does my brain, at least most of the time, too. ;)
 
jclemens said:
jwallace3 please continue and you don't have to keep justifying to people with more money than brains.


+1 !

I never liked closed source stuff, and that is what ingineer is currently doing. I hope that we eventually get to where people with money can order a mod from commercial sources and the rest of us can mod it themselves (and learn from the mod).

Keep up the good work.
 
garygid said:
If you have something, or anything, working,
why do you not say/show exactly what you did?

Gary, if you had read his posts carefully, you would have seen that he said he would post pics and directions at a later time. Be patient, it's coming!
I agree with other posters that if someone can modify our Panasonic EVSE safely for around $20 instead of +$240, I'm all for it! :mrgreen:
 
It seems to me that the only way this could be done with "jumpers" would be to jump the two hot lines directly to the charge plug cord, then splitting one of them to power the circuit board (for the pilot line, etc.) by connecting the circuit board's neutral line to the ground pin of the 240v plug. This way the car could draw a full 240v, but the circuitry would still run at 120v. That technique certainly would work, but it would definitely bypass many of the EVSE's safety features, as the OP indicated was currently the case. That would also explain the current leakage previously alluded to if the neutral is being dumped on the ground line. If that's what's being done, I sure wouldn't do it - that seems way to risky. But until the OP does a more formal write up and submits it for public scrutiny, we're all just guessing. Maybe he's really on to something... :roll:
 
I'm with GeekEV - it sounds pretty hairy to me (and you already know that I'm a pretty hairy guy to begin with, so that's saying something). A very sober person told me once that a man has to know his limitations, and I certainly know these kind of mods are beyond my personal capabilities. So I think it makes sense for those like myself to send our units to an ingineer type vendor for modification.

On the other hand, if the OP is doing this competently (and with safety in mind), I encourage him to continue to showing us what he's up to. I mean, it's not like he's the first to take the road less traveled - we've had Chris Howell do his own thing for a L2 EVSE. And I know Robert Buaas was going to modify his own L1, rather than sending it to ingineer. But then, I believe both these guys are EEs!
 
Every time I attemp to write a response either my laptop dies, my 4 month old cries or my iPad dies. So this is my 4 attempt and I'll keep it brief for the time being since I'm on my iPad.

As for my first step, I did simply change out the pigtail and jumper the second leg of 240 to the output wire which was on the neutral lug. The ESVE only cares about current, not voltage. The car detects the voltage. The ESVE is just a smart extension cord. I did initially run my new jumper leg through the CT, but the charger didn't like that.

There are 2 paths in the ESVE, high current, and control. The charging path, from what I can tell, is perfectly capable of 240 VAC. The relays are rated at 250VAC with 12 volt coils so no issue there. The control path has a 120 to 20.9 VAC transformer. This is where the mod must take place. Since I'm not de-potting my board and tapping into the DC bus we need to insert some device which always delivers 20.9 vac to the board for the control. To make the mod easy and safe, the best way is to use a 4 wire 12 ga cable and add an additional relay. I have parts on order from digikey at the moment. Basically I plan on adding a relay with 1 form C (1NO/1NC)contact and a 240 coil. So the method will wire the first hot, neutral, and ground as originally wired, except the neutral will also be wired through the relay on the normally closed contact. The coil will be wired to both hots for 240 and the normally open contact on the relay will be wired to the other hot leg. The main contact on the relay will be wired to the white(originally neutral) wire on the J1772 cable. This always supplies the step down transformer with 120 so the control electronics don't burn up, and if 240 is present, the relay closes and applies the second hot leg to the J1772 connector allowing for 240 charging.

Right now i simply have 240 wired to the J1772 connector. One leg right now is always hot on the connector which obviously isn't ideal, but hey, so is any extension cord that you plug in right? It's not that terrible. The other leg gets closed in when the relay closes and charging begins. Very simple. My above plan is what I intend on doing in the long run for a mod. I already have input capture/output compare code written from another project that I am going to use to extend the pulse to allow for up to 20 amps. The charger only uses up to 16, however, if you want to use climate control while plugged up you will need the extra power. I am using a fresscale MC9S12 automotive grade microprocessor. I just need to build the circuit with proper resistances based on the J1772 standard. Right now, I'm just trying to finaize a cheap safe way to implement 120/240 charging. So far, it looks that the new 4 wire pigtail and 240VAC coil form C relay will do the trick.
 
jwallace3 said:
Right now, I'm just trying to finaize a cheap safe way to implement 120/240 charging. So far, it looks that the new 4 wire pigtail and 240VAC coil form C relay will do the trick.

I really like your idea. Will it still only cost $20 for the parts? I would rarely use it as I haven't even looked at my 120V EVSE yet (June), but would be nice to use if my Blink goes on the blink. There could be a brick in there as far as I know.
 
Jack,

So if I understand you correctly, you mod is going to require a 4-wire power source H-N-H-G, so that you can tap off 120V from H-N to power the 120V control board? This is a cheap way to do it, but it will limit its portability, since a lot of 240V receptacles don't have a neutral wire.

I haven't taken mine apart, so I don't if what I'm proposing is feasible or not, but it seems a more straightforward method would be to just patch in a 240V-compatible switching supply for the controller. The current 3-wire input is 120V H-N-G. I'm assuming H-N are going through the CT for the GFI. So if you use a pigtail to connect H-H-G for 240V, the GFI will still work properly. No other jumper needed.

Would this work, or am I missing something?
 
You are correct. In the event that there isn't a neutral present, the neutral and ground will just be tied together in the connection. At my parents house they have an old school 240/15 amp outlet with 2 hots and a ground. No neutral. In this case I will just tie the neutral and ground together. As far as the GFI functionality, you are correct, if I were to run the 240 jumper through the CT is should work. As of right now the charger doesn't like it. I haven't messed with it since yesterday. My mod to all of 20 minutes. I tried running my second hot leg through the CT and it didn't like it. I will work on it this week and let you all know. And yes, it will still cost $20. The current mod I'm using is 2 jumpers for 230 and the only cost involved was the 12/3 extension cable for the new tether and the 240/20 amp plug. Both of these were less than $20. If you were to use a nema 6 or 14 connector it would be quite expensive. The nema 6/14 connectors are $22+ per connector. This is kinda high if you ask me. Being that the unit is portable, I'm more in favor of the standard 240/3 wire 20 amp connector for $6. The twist lock is too expensive, and in my opinion you want the connector to come loose if someone were to trip on the cord or something like that. I wouldn't want stress to be placed on the J1772 connector on the car or the house and risk ripping the outlet out of the wall. Plus, cost is everything. It's just cheaper.

For those naysayers who think I'm doing wrong or something. I am sorry you don't like what I'm doing, or think that I'm an idiot. I am a degreed engineer, in the power field, I have my PE, I do understand the J1772 standard so if you don't like what I have to say here, don't post please. I am simply letting others know an easy way to get L2 charging on the go.

I earlier said that this wasn't a permanent mod, but after thinking about it I changed my mind. This crude mod could be permanent. Every time you plug in an extension cord there is 120@15-20 amps present at the end of the outlet. Everyone in the modern world is ok with this. My crude $20 mod does the same thing. There is one hot leg and ground always at the end of your J1772 connector which is no different than an extension cord. Since this is a portable charging unit and I am assuming you are using it away from your normal charging location, it would also be safe to assume that when you plug the ESVE in, you are probably ready to charge so the charger isn't just sitting there hot with nothing attached. In this case, the jumper mod is perfect. It's quick, easy your still protected by the breaker in the power panel in the house and its cheap. Using the relay that I've ordered is a more permanent solution just because it does't keep the connector hot. Using the jumper method, reverting back to 120 charging is all in an additional pigtail which would cost about $10 tops.

lincomatic said:
Jack,

So if I understand you correctly, you mod is going to require a 4-wire power source H-N-H-G, so that you can tap off 120V from H-N to power the 120V control board? This is a cheap way to do it, but it will limit its portability, since a lot of 240V receptacles don't have a neutral wire.

I haven't taken mine apart, so I don't if what I'm proposing is feasible or not, but it seems a more straightforward method would be to just patch in a 240V-compatible switching supply for the controller. The current 3-wire input is 120V H-N-G. I'm assuming H-N are going through the CT for the GFI. So if you use a pigtail to connect H-H-G for 240V, the GFI will still work properly. No other jumper needed.

Would this work, or am I missing something?
 
Yes, this is basically what I'm currently doing, but without the CT bc the charger doesn't like it for some reason. You are on the right track. 4 wires just allows for a separate ground and neutral to power the electronics and allow for safety. Older 240 outlets don't have a neutral, just ground. Right now I am currently using hot, hot, and ground for 240 and reverting to 120 hot neutral and ground. 120/240 charging just depends on how you wire the pigtail once you make the jumpers on the inside of the unit.
lincomatic said:
Jack,

So if I understand you correctly, you mod is going to require a 4-wire power source H-N-H-G, so that you can tap off 120V from H-N to power the 120V control board? This is a cheap way to do it, but it will limit its portability, since a lot of 240V receptacles don't have a neutral wire.

I haven't taken mine apart, so I don't if what I'm proposing is feasible or not, but it seems a more straightforward method would be to just patch in a 240V-compatible switching supply for the controller. The current 3-wire input is 120V H-N-G. I'm assuming H-N are going through the CT for the GFI. So if you use a pigtail to connect H-H-G for 240V, the GFI will still work properly. No other jumper needed.

Would this work, or am I missing something?
 
So you are plugging in the EVSE into 240v but you are really only feeding it 120v because of the pigtail modification. Ok, I see there could be some use for this if you were at a place that had only 240vac outlets, and you wanted to plug in the EVSE, but it is not the same as evseupgrade.com because that unit actually passes the 240vac to the onboard charger instead of 120 like your describing. Great work on getting your EVSE working so you can use it at home as well as at your parents house. I'd still suggest the upgrade as it will also charge twice as fast.
 
No i am charging at 240. just passing 120 to the electronics rectifying circuit bc that is what they were designed for. 120 to the electronics and 240 or 120 to the car depending on whether you have L1 or L2 available. Sorry for the brevity but i'm typing with one hand while my 4 month old is crying.

palmermd said:
So you are plugging in the EVSE into 240v but you are really only feeding it 120v because of the pigtail modification. Ok, I see there could be some use for this if you were at a place that had only 240vac outlets, and you wanted to plug in the EVSE, but it is not the same as evseupgrade.com because that unit actually passes the 240vac to the onboard charger instead of 120 like your describing. Great work on getting your EVSE working so you can use it at home as well as at your parents house. I'd still suggest the upgrade as it will also charge twice as fast.
 
Hmm.. I saw your post in a different thread, about generators, where you mention that the EVSE checks to make sure gnd and neutral are connected together...
So in the 240V configuration I mentioned above, if you connect the white wire to hot, it will try to test for ground by seeing if this hot wire is shorted to the green wire, and refuse to work?

[EDIT: Sorry, I missed your first more detailed reply above. All questions already answered, thanks]
 
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