Power Consumption Table

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kpsleaf

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
2
We're currently carrying out a study into the use of the Leaf for a 96 mile commute (48 miles eac way) with a 220V 16 amp charger at each end with a 5.5 hour charging window. The initial studies look.... borderline, however, I can't find any information ref the power consupmtion of the accessories. Is there a spec or doccument available that I can use? We've covered over 1000 miles in 10 days but the weather is good and the batterys are still fresh. Any help / advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Matt.
 
that should work for you fine.
i do that every day, but it is a roundtrip.
charging takes about 3-3.5 hours.

accessories depends on what you use and the weather, temp., daylight, etc.
that should be obvious.
 
kpsleaf said:
We're currently carrying out a study into the use of the Leaf for a 96 mile commute (48 miles eac way) with a 220V 16 amp charger at each end with a 5.5 hour charging window. The initial studies look.... borderline.....

How is this borderline? How fast are you driving?

Obviously, all the accessories are variable, based on YOUR use. The biggest draw is the heater, air conditioning below that, and the rest of the electrical load is not really worth worrying about (radio, navigation, headlights (except maybe high beam, and the "fog" lights).
 
Easy peasy if you have L2 at both ends...you should be able to use 80% mode if you can keep your speed reasonable.

P.S. if you would share some of your reasoning and your general location, we can help you refine it.
 
Gents,

The fact I have to face is that in the UK, people aren't always receptive to change and that someone will allways try to make something like this fail,and the "ney sayers" are quick to sieze any opportunity.The journey one way appears to drain a lot more power than the return leg, on average figures the 48 mile journey takes 10 bars from 12 in both eco and normal drive modes, and 8 to 9 bars in the other direction. The landscape gently undulates without any really large hills, and certainly no mountains (route located http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr...CLPo1R4SDEyLlvLak2c6A&vpsrc=0&mra=ls&t=h&z=10. About 1/3 of the journey is completed at motorway speeds (70 mph) and the remainder at Road speeds (60 mph). The car has to be able to withstand being driven with the radio, satnav, lights, wipers & heater or AC on (this is Britain after all) and have a 10% remaining margin remaining to allow for possible diversions / traffic jams etc. The vehicle will also be carrying between 1-4 passengers with 50 kg of luggage. As this vehicle is being used for work, in work time, it really must be as close to 100% reliable for the journey as possible as putting others in harms way isn't an option (that and the fact I'll be cursed to oblivion the first time it failed). I wanted the table of power consumptions as I've completed a series of 20+ test runs and need to run some further statistical analysis. As was said, it should breeze it but some of the results were marginal and I need to offer people assurances of the fact and figures nature not just annecdotal.

Can anyone provide the necessary info please?

Thanks

Matt.
 
kpsleaf said:
...The fact I have to face is that in the UK, people aren't always receptive to change and that someone will allways try to make something like this fail,and the "ney sayers" are quick to sieze any opportunity...

Oh, we don't have any of those in the US! :)
 
I've been logging data on my daily commute (~47 miles round trip). You are welcome to look:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An7gtcYL2Oy0dHNwVmRkNkFnaEVOQTVENW5mOTZlb0E&hl=en_US

Each day has three entries: Once in the morning when I leave (trip odometer reset to zero), once when I reach work, and again when I get home. On the trip back, I have a stop where I sit in the car for ~30minutes with the AC on (why the average mph and efficiency is lower on the return). Based on my data, I think your trip is tight at freeway speeds. Reasonable at <50mph. I only recently got Gary's SOC meter so some of the early data is incomplete. I also "top off" the 80% charge for 30 minutes each morning so I am starting with what Nissan would call ~90% charge. Finally I should mention my trip is mostly surface streets (no freeway) with an effective speed limit of 54mph to which I usually set the cruise since traffic is light.
 
kpsleaf said:
the 48 mile journey takes 10 bars from 12 in both eco and normal drive modes, and 8 to 9 bars in the other direction. The landscape gently undulates without any really large hills, and certainly no mountains

Matt,

I've attached an elevation chart of your route. It doesn't appear to be the reason for your differences in energy usage. We need more information. What is the temperature for both directions? My guess is that is cold in the morning, and you're running the heater, then it's not so cold in the afternoon on the return trip?


LEAFimmingham2retfordUK.jpg



About 1/3 of the journey is completed at motorway speeds (70 mph) and the remainder at Road speeds (60 mph).


There is a significant difference in range between 60mph and 70mph. Is there any chance that you could limit the entire trip to 60mph on the morning 48 miles trip? Please see the attached chart:


LEAFrangeChartVersion7a75percentSize.jpg
 
One mistaken assumption I see: "and have a 10% remaining margin remaining to allow for possible diversions / traffic jams etc."

Note that traffic jams HELP your range when you're on the freeway. Remember that when you're not moving, you're not using any (relatively) electricity, compared to running a gasoline engine. :)

Based on this profile you should be fine. I drive minimum 56 miles RT every day, with plenty of hills.
 
i have to question your trips having "marginal" results. i have to say that the trips even in very bad weather conditions should use no more than 75-80% of your capacity one way and 5 hours is more than enough time to recharge

what i think you need to do is at the end of a marginal trip. continue on a controlled route (circling if you must) to see exactly what is left in the pack. i think you are more a victim of the GOM than any range restriction
 
Not always, actually. If you can move at a fairly constant low speed, yes, but if you are in stop and go driving, it can actually eat in to your range more than a constant slow speed. My M/Kwh is almost always lower when I am in stop and go, 5 or 10 mph traffic than when I can cruise at a constant, reasonable, slower speed... The need to accelerate and then decelerate, stopping, and parasitic loses add up in such a condition.


rmerte said:
One mistaken assumption I see: "and have a 10% remaining margin remaining to allow for possible diversions / traffic jams etc."
Note that traffic jams HELP your range when you're on the freeway. Remember that when you're not moving, you're not using any (relatively) electricity, compared to running a gasoline engine.
 
TomT said:
Not always, actually. If you can move at a fairly constant low speed, yes, but if you are in stop and go driving, it can actually eat in to your range more than a constant slow speed. My M/Kwh is almost always lower when I am in stop and go, 5 or 10 mph traffic than when I can cruise at a constant, reasonable, slower speed... The need to accelerate and then decelerate, stopping, and parasitic loses add up in such a condition.


rmerte said:
One mistaken assumption I see: "and have a 10% remaining margin remaining to allow for possible diversions / traffic jams etc."
Note that traffic jams HELP your range when you're on the freeway. Remember that when you're not moving, you're not using any (relatively) electricity, compared to running a gasoline engine.

stop and go is NEVER going to be more efficient that constant velocity unless talking about very high speeds. also keep in mind; in any time scenario, several things have fixed usage so the longer on the road, the lower the efficiency. now in most cases, time is insignificant. but if spending an hour in stop and go running a heater using 2 Kw /hour that is 6-9 miles of range gone
 
TomT said:
Not always, actually. If you can move at a fairly constant low speed, yes, but if you are in stop and go driving, it can actually eat in to your range more than a constant slow speed. My M/Kwh is almost always lower when I am in stop and go, 5 or 10 mph traffic than when I can cruise at a constant, reasonable, slower speed... The need to accelerate and then decelerate, stopping, and parasitic loses add up in such a condition.


rmerte said:
One mistaken assumption I see: "and have a 10% remaining margin remaining to allow for possible diversions / traffic jams etc."
Note that traffic jams HELP your range when you're on the freeway. Remember that when you're not moving, you're not using any (relatively) electricity, compared to running a gasoline engine.
TomT +1. On freeways with only gentle up and down grades, destination near same altitude as start, at steady speeds, no climate control, I can achieve 5.1 to 5.2 mi/kwh. Stop and go (0-30 mph) can cut this almost in half, no matter how careful I am to watch traffic several cars ahead of me to smooth-out my speed. In normal traffic I let the speed creep up above 60 mph on short gentle downgrades to avoid the inefficiencies of regen.

Your elevation profile shows some grades that might not be "gentle." On steeper upgrades I would suggest you drop your speed as low as is safe for the surrounding traffic, 50 mph or even lower, to avoid motor draws exceeding 25 kWs. On steeper downgrades you may have to use some regen to keep speed down, otherwise you will have higher aerodynamic losses.

You might consider building the SOC meter (see CanBus sub-forum) to more accurately track you battery State-of-Charge. I find it very helpful for estimating exactly how far I can go and how much reserve I have left.
 
tbleakne said:
On freeways with only gentle up and down grades, destination near same altitude as start, at steady speeds, no climate control, I can achieve 5.1 to 5.2 mi/kwh.

At what speed do you travel on the freeways to get 5.1-5.2? According to the chart, that would be around 45mph. Did you reset your m/kW h meter when you reached your set speed? I've hit 5.0 @60mph (CC) twice so far on a 20mi., all freeway RT, relatively flat, same starting altitude, temp low 70s, no HVAC. I can tell you that there is a huge difference when the ambient temps are below 70 on the freeway AND in city street driving.
 
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