Nissan Engineering Team Visit Dec. 3rd: Recap

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Likes:
- Ride quality is outstanding
- Ease of charging @home
- Included navigation, charger locator, semi hands free phone and USB HD Support are nice
- That Nissan took the risk to be first and actually make a great EV
- The taillights look really cool

Dis-likes:
- The AC. It presets to outside air (stink) and it's hard to just have the fan on low
- 3.3kwh charger, should have an option to upgrade to a 10kwh
- The Handsfree phone control on the steering wheel is pretty useless, should have a toggle and select feature like the radio does (we just have to use the touchscreen nav display which is dangerous and not hands free). The voice commands don't understand me
- Navigation Maps have way to many colors so I can see where I am supposed to go by looking at the route map color. All the major freeways are a crazy rainbow of yellow, red and yellow/green. The current route color should be a standout exclusive like hot pink
- The bulging headlights and rounded tail (butt) are not refined or sporty looking
- The sun visors need a pullout extension when they are being used on the driver/passenger side windows to prevent user blindness

Sorry couldn't keep to three of each :cry:

Great car overall though!
 
I still haven't received an email.

Faster response would be good.
Ability to use an alternate wireless carrier.
An API, if there is not one already.

:(
linkim said:
Thanks everyone for the input so far with your suggestions for improvements to future LEAFs. There has been a lot of discussion on the climate control - ventilation, heater and AC controls. How about Carwings? Are there specific improvements to Carwings that you would suggest for future LEAFs?

Thanks,

Kim
 
linkim said:
Thanks everyone for the input so far with your suggestions for improvements to future LEAFs. There has been a lot of discussion on the climate control - ventilation, heater and AC controls. How about Carwings? Are there specific improvements to Carwings that you would suggest for future LEAFs?

Thanks,

Kim
The Owner's Portal doesn't support the iPad because it uses Flash, so you can't get to CARWINGS from the iPad browser. The iPhone/iPad app is very limited; either make it full function or redo the website to make it compatable.
 
Likes:
- Smooth, fast acceleration
- Size of vehicle and interior room space
- Music options (satalite, radio, USB [ultra big plus], and audio jack)

Dislikes:
- No State of Charge gauge
- Release hood for charging ports in a difficult place
- Ability to just use the fan and outside air when its cooler for AC
 
Like
- Everything not in the dis-like column. Thank-you Nissan!

Dislike
- Needs bigger battery/range option.
- Needs faster L2 charger, or upgradeable on 2011-2012 LEAFs
- Needs spare tire.
 
gascant said:
The SF BayLEAFs are arranging a meeting on December 3rd with members of the LEAF Engineering team from Japan. The purpose is to provide direct feedback to Nissan regarding our experiences with the car. It's also a forum for providing suggestions for improvements in both the LEAF and future Nissan EV's. Some (working prototypes) of these will be demonstrated by MNL forum members (e.g., the modified EVSE that provides full Level 2 charging). The exact time and location are still to be determined. We hope to have an impressive turnout of owners and LEAFs to demonstrate our passion for helping EVs be commercially successful.

The meeting is now confirmed for December 3rd. It's looking like Google (in Mountain View) will be our host, too. We'll be compiling responses and posting here, along with preparing some PowerPoint files to present. Watch for further updates.
 
gascant said:
The meeting is now confirmed for December 3rd. It's looking like Google (in Mountain View) will be our host, too. We'll be compiling responses and posting here, along with preparing some PowerPoint files to present. Watch for further updates.
Awesome! Thanks for all the work! I'd imagine that's a pretty good relatively central location that should be good for many folks in the Bay Area.
 
Like everything about the car, especially:
- good handling
- low operating cost (finger crossed)
- roomy interior especially the headroom and the trunk layout. The nook on trunk's right side is so perfect for storing a golf bag across (my boss's has to perpetually keep his back seat of his Volt folded down due to it's narrow layout), that I want to ask if they did it on purpose.

needs improvement:
- minimize the high pitch sound around 45mph
- solar panel too small to be useful, willing to pay $$$$ for a 1kW panel across the roof for next Gen leaf.
- lack of CHAdeMO chargers in California, it's almost a crime that there's no charger available in NorCal, a full 10 month after the first Leaf was shipped. Please motivate dealers to install them (charge us for the cost)
 
gascant said:
gascant said:
The SF BayLEAFs are arranging a meeting on December 3rd with members of the LEAF Engineering team from Japan. The purpose is to provide direct feedback to Nissan regarding our experiences with the car. It's also a forum for providing suggestions for improvements in both the LEAF and future Nissan EV's. Some (working prototypes) of these will be demonstrated by MNL forum members (e.g., the modified EVSE that provides full Level 2 charging). The exact time and location are still to be determined. We hope to have an impressive turnout of owners and LEAFs to demonstrate our passion for helping EVs be commercially successful.

The meeting is now confirmed for December 3rd. It's looking like Google (in Mountain View) will be our host, too. We'll be compiling responses and posting here, along with preparing some PowerPoint files to present. Watch for further updates.

Where can we all park?
COuld you check with your Google contact if folks arriving for this meeting are allowed to use Google's L2 chargers onsite?

Thx.
 
yoyofella said:
- solar panel too small to be useful, willing to pay $$$$ for a 1kW panel across the roof for next Gen leaf.
I hear this a lot, and it really makes me scratch my head. Are that many LEAF drivers unaware of the state of the art in solar panels?

Do you know how much area would be required for 1kW of generation? How big do you want them to make the Leaf "RV edition"?
 
GroundLoop said:
yoyofella said:
- solar panel too small to be useful, willing to pay $$$$ for a 1kW panel across the roof for next Gen leaf.
I hear this a lot, and it really makes me scratch my head. Are that many LEAF drivers unaware of the state of the art in solar panels?

Do you know how much area would be required for 1kW of generation? How big do you want them to make the Leaf "RV edition"?

Sunpower's solar panel generates about 15.5W/sqft. I estimate the Leaf's roof to have about 40~50sqft of useable area. Perhaps 1kW is pushing it, but 600~750W should be ok.
http://sroeco.com/solar/most-efficient-solar-panels
 
A bit late in the game but

Smaller back headrests (seems to be an issue)
Access to the Accessories that are available in Europe and Japan
More aggressive regen option (maybe regen1 regen II)
 
Assuming you could fill the Leaf's roof - I'm ignoring the hood as that is not a practical location IMHO - with solar panels, it is about 3.5 feet wide and 5 feet long. That is 17.5 square feet. That is less than 300 watts.... Considering the amount of time most Leaf's are likely in full sun, there is simply no ROI there.


yoyofella said:
Sunpower's solar panel generates about 15.5W/sqft. I estimate the Leaf's roof to have about 40~50sqft of useable area. Perhaps 1kW is pushing it, but 600~750W should be ok.
http://sroeco.com/solar/most-efficient-solar-panels
 
One more easy fix. There needs to be a coat hook above the driver's side back seat door. The absence of a hook there irks me regularly. Should add about 50 cents to the price of the car, and be well worth it.
 
TomT said:
Assuming you could fill the Leaf's roof - I'm ignoring the hood as that is not a practical location IMHO - with solar panels, it is about 3.5 feet wide and 5 feet long. That is 17.5 square feet. That is less than 300 watts.... Considering the amount of time most Leaf's are likely in full sun, there is simply no ROI there.


yoyofella said:
Sunpower's solar panel generates about 15.5W/sqft. I estimate the Leaf's roof to have about 40~50sqft of useable area. Perhaps 1kW is pushing it, but 600~750W should be ok.
http://sroeco.com/solar/most-efficient-solar-panels

I'm not sure why you think we can't fill most of the roof (see Peugeot 206C's all glass roof) with solar. Sunpower's panel are crystalline solar which are manufactured in small wafer-sized form, that 3.5x5' is the packaged dimension, which can be redesigned.

By the way, Sunpower's cost is now very close to the $1/watt. Assuming it cost 8x to put in on the car, package it, and add the associated electronics, a 0.6kW design may cost $5000. I would't mind spending $5000 to have a real panel that can potentially generate 5kWh per day of power. The ROI should not just factor in the power the panel can generate, but also all the capability it can enable. off the top of my head, that includes:
- get extra 20 miles range
- be used to maintain battery charge state
- maintain battery temperature in extreme climate.

anyways, I don't want to hijack this thread... but I hope Nissan can look into a larger panel. I have no doubt
other manufacturer will have this option in the future.
 
yoyofella said:
I'm not sure why you think we can't fill most of the roof (see Peugeot 206C's all glass roof) with solar. Sunpower's panel are crystalline solar which are manufactured in small wafer-sized form, that 3.5x5' is the packaged dimension, which can be redesigned.

By the way, Sunpower's cost is now very close to the $1/watt. Assuming it cost 8x to put in on the car, package it, and add the associated electronics, a 0.6kW design may cost $5000. I would't mind spending $5000 to have a real panel that can potentially generate 5kWh per day of power.

5kWh ? Sorry, you are dreaming. Even if you could fit 600W of panels there (which you can't) you have to derate to 80% in normal weather. 480W. Then ~85% charger efficiency. 400W. Times 8 hours of direct above sun that would be 3.2kWh. But the sun moves so you can safely assume no more than 2.4kWh on ideal sunny days. Then halve that again 'cause you can't fit more than 300W of panels. 1.2kWh. And derating to 80% is on the high side, my educated guess would be 1kWh/day in bright sun or 4-5 miles of range.

My VW Touran has 29sqft of rooftop estate. It is a much larger car than the Leaf, so around 20sqft maximum would be my guess.

For the price of that 300W panel you could probably fit enough solar on your home roof to charge the Leaf for free. If it's range extension you're after, another 1kWh of battery would cost WAY less than that panel.
 
jkirkebo said:
my educated guess would be 1kWh/day in bright sun or 4-5 miles of range.
... If it's range extension you're after, another 1kWh of battery would cost WAY less than that panel.

I'd guess that the solar option WILL happen, if only because Toyota has it on the Prius. I suspect that we will see windows with built in solar power in the decades ahead. So, arguing that it's "not worth it" is probably moot. We're going to get it.

I personally would pay a significant premium for that 5 miles of extra range on a car with such limited practical range. I'll bet that the solar will be significantly lighter and smaller in packaging than another chunk of battery.

But, I'll take both. Having that solar on the roof as a more "cost effective" solution does me no good when I'm 10 miles from home, and only have 7 miles of range... that would have been 12 miles of range, had my car had a solar range extender.
 
Please reread my comment. What I said was that a roof the size of the Leaf's, even full of panels, would not generate enough power to be economically practical...

yoyofella said:
I'm not sure why you think we can't fill most of the roof (see Peugeot 206C's all glass roof) with solar. Sunpower's panel are crystalline solar which are manufactured in small wafer-sized form, that 3.5x5' is the packaged dimension, which can be redesigned.
 
TomT said:
Please reread my comment. What I said was that a roof the size of the Leaf's, even full of panels, would not generate enough power to be economically practical...
With today's solar tech, you are absolutely correct. But that doesn't stop people from adding the "solar roof" option to their Prii. And then there's the solar roof on the Fisker Karma. It's definitely not "economically practical", but then again, neither are most new car purchases.
 
abasile said:
TomT said:
Please reread my comment. What I said was that a roof the size of the Leaf's, even full of panels, would not generate enough power to be economically practical...
With today's solar tech, you are absolutely correct. But that doesn't stop people from adding the "solar roof" option to their Prii. And then there's the solar roof on the Fisker Karma. It's definitely not "economically practical", but then again, neither are most new car purchases.

Not sure why all the negative comment about the solar roof concept, as we all know this is something we'll eventually get (hopefully sooner rather than later). For someone living in area with more extreme cold/heat climate, having a battery pack is an enabler. Right now, if someone living in Boston were to leave the Leaf outside for 1~2 month while he's away for business trip, it's probably very bad for the battery (even after they have battery temperature control, as the battery will drain). This is a limitation not experienced by ICE cars. I can imagine that similar issue can be seen during the hot summer in Phoenix.

Having a Solar roof option can potentially mitigate that, as the electricity generated by the panel can help warm/cool the battery while it's sitting outside, as well as keep it charged.

I think looking at the PV roof purely from $$/kWh perspective is too limited. We should look at it as an enabling feature that can potentially allow pure BEV to adopted by a wider public. Frankly, besides the limited range, a BEV also limited in the sense that you kind of need a garage.

I'll use myself as an example: I'm an apartment dweller living in very temperate NorCal weather (carport, no garage), but I also occasionally travel oversea for work, potentially 1 month at a time, during which time the car is basically sitting either on the street or at the long term airport parking.
If I lived in the Northeast or hot south, I don't think I could have bought the car for the very reason I've already described above as I'll be very worried about the battery surviving a winter month in a parking lot.

anyways, I really don't want to let this PV roof discussion hijack this very useful thread about Leaf engineering team visit.
 
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