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7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHAdeMO

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:26 pm

From SanDust.
http://www.renewgridmag.com/e107_plugin ... ntent.7457" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A couple articles are confirming this:
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10 ... -charging/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The announcement is the most explicit indication yet from German automakers that they favor the design standard coordinated by SAE International, an organization of scientists and vehicle engineers, over one developed by the Tokyo Electric Power Company and in wide use in Asia, known as Chademo.
<snip>
SAE standards are voluntary, but Mr. Pokrzywa noted that many of the world’s automakers have worked with the organization on developing the combined protocol. He added that in the next few months SAE would begin testing the prototype combo charging system in production vehicles. If the testing is successfully concluded, a final standard could be published by the organization in the first quarter of 2012.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 79563.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SOURCE Ford Motor Company
DEARBORN, Mich., Oct. 12, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --
Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen agreed to support a harmonized single-port fast charging approach for use on electric vehicles in Europe and the United States

* The system is a combined charging approach that integrates all charging scenarios into one vehicle inlet/charging connector and uses identical ways for the vehicle to communicate with the charging station
* The seven auto manufacturers also agreed to use HomePlug GreenPHY as the communication protocol. This approach will facilitate integration of the electric vehicle into future smart grid applications
* Agreeing upon a single, harmonized DC fast charging system, we believe will help infrastructure planning, reduce vehicle complexity and improve the ownership experience for electric vehicle customers
* Recognizing the importance of a single international approach for DC fast charging, Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen have agreed on the combined charging system as an international standardized approach to charge electric vehicles (EV) in Europe and the United States.

The system is a combined charging approach integrating all charging scenarios into one vehicle inlet/charging connector and uses identical ways for the vehicle to communicate with the charging station. This allows electric vehicles from Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen can share the same fast charging stations.

The seven auto manufacturers believe the development of a common charging approach is good for customers, the industry and charging infrastructure providers. Standardization will reduce build complexity for manufacturers, accelerate the installation of common systems internationally and most importantly, improve the ownership experience for EV drivers.

The endorsement of the combined charging system was based on reviews and analysis of existing charging strategies, the ergonomics of the connector and the preferences of customers in both the United States and Europe. The harmonized approach – across both continents and all manufacturers - will provide a framework for future infrastructure planning as well as a communication protocol to assist in the integration of electric vehicles into the smart grids.

The seven auto manufacturers also agreed to use HomePlug GreenPHY as the communication protocol. This approach will also facilitate integration of the electric vehicle into future smart grid applications.

Automakers point to the success of Level 1 and Level 2 (for 220V charging in the U.S.) as an example of how standardization will increase the adoption of electric vehicles and increase customer satisfaction. The harmonized electric vehicle charging solution is backward compatible with the J1772 connector standard in the U.S. Backward compatibility also has been achieved in Europe where the system is based on the IEC 62196 Type 2. The approval of the J1772 standard has given electric vehicle owners the comfort of knowing they can charge at all Level 2 charging stations. Prior to standardization an EV owner had no way of knowing if the charge port they were pulling up to was compatible with their vehicle.
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:10 pm

Interesting.

Kind of funny how only one of those 7 companies actually has an EV in production, and the Volt is really just a Plug-in which doesn't really benefit as much from L3. The 'piggy-back' of the L3 J1772 at least enables forward compatibility, that is I can plug my current L2 & L1 into a new L3 J1772, but I certainly can't plug one of the new L3 plugs into the LEAF J1772 (see http://www.greencarreports.com/news/106 ... rging-plug for a picture).

With the LEAF, CHAdeMO has at least a 2yr head start. Will the new J1772 L3 be the VHS or the Beta in this race? Beta did have a head start and lost, is CHAdeMO on the same path?

My guess is that there will be an adapter for no matter who loses....

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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:13 pm

Is this really support of a standard, or trying to slow Nissan down since they are in the lead?
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:30 pm

I was just following latest EV news and zoomed in on the picture below (Spark_Cutaway) to create a post. I'm not sure that the Chevrolet BEV Spark will have this L3 connector ... I don't think it was officially stated.

From the thread about the Chevrolet BEV Spark:
J1772 combo (aka hybrid) L3 - preparation

From the big picture here:
http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/news/ ... utaway.jpg

...doesn't it look like there is a lower flap for the J1772 hybrid L3 vs J1772 L2 ?!?

J1772 hybrid L3:
Image

Image
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:34 pm

This kind of standards fighting can kill a product.

Remember HD-DVD vs Bul-ray. HD-DVD was first, had a better product that worked and allowed DVD on one side and HD-DVD on the other. Sony through a butt load of money at content providers and the HD-DVD standard failed, but it took over a year. and the public stayed away for bot formats. And prices did nt drop until Sony won, with a product that did not work full for another 18 months.
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:36 pm

NONE of these manufactures have any vehicles on the road with a fast charge port on them. By the time any of them even have one car on the road with "their" fast charge protocol, Nissan will have 50,000 Leafs with Chademo on the road. There will also be 700-1000 Chademo chargers in the US along with the 1000's that have already been installed in Japan.
I think this is just a plot by oil companies pressuring car companies and the SAE to delay fast charging standards.
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:39 pm

I'm standing by my prediction of SAE's next helpful standard to replace today's separate gasoline and diesel connectors with a single unit. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 15#p122915

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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:39 pm

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/106 ... -in-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not only will the charging connectors be identical for all electric vehicles, but all seven manufacturers will also use HomePlug GreenPHY as the shared communication protocol to help integrate the cars with smart grids in the future.

The move is fantastic news for EV fans and manufacturers alike. In a release, Ford says "We applied the [philosophy of innovative, convenient solutions] in working with other global automakers and governments to offer one common approach on charging electric vehicles".

Ford says the move will help speed infrastructure development, improve economic growth and making charging more convenient.
HomePlug GreenPHY
https://www.homeplug.org/tech/whitepape ... 100614.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:59 pm

The Plug & Socket are not the most difficult part of the battle.

The WILDLY DIFFERENT Communication Protocol is the MUCH BIGGER problem.
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Re: 7 manufacturers support J1772 L3 DC Quick chrgr over CHA

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:51 am

garygid wrote:The Plug & Socket are not the most difficult part of the battle.

The WILDLY DIFFERENT Communication Protocol is the MUCH BIGGER problem.
And how will this "smart grid friendly" protocol help quick charging? It will not, because the point of quick charging is quickness, not grid-friendliness. If a quick-charge is throttled back significantly to "help the grid", except in an emergency, it will defeat the purpose of quick charging.

L2 is where "smart grid friendliness" is needed. The current L2 pilot theoretically can tell the charger to throttle back the charge rate in response as part of the a smart grid aware EVSE, however iwhen it comes to V2G and other smart grid friendly things, no way can the pilot do the amount of communications necessary. CAN buss (as is used in CHAdeMO) would probably be the ideal solution for an EVSE, since it is well developed and used in the automotive industry. My guess is that they are planning to pull a fast one and piggyback the new communications protocol onto L2, the same way they piggybacked the DC pins onto the existing J1772 connector.

Smart grid communications standards are still in a very embrionic state while CAN is fairly well developed. IMHO there is no technical reason not to use CAN; this "agreement" on a vaporware standard is GM's "move" in the chess game to block Nissan's expansion of CHAdeMO. They are despirate, as Nissan has a BIG lead, both in producing CHAdeMO vehicles, and deploying a WORLDWIDE quick charge network. The way they spin the word "harmonized" makes it sound as if CHAdoMO is not a world standard, while in fact it is deployed in many countries TODAY.

This is rhetoric, pure and simple, put out by a coaltion who is still a ways from producing any cars which can use a quick charger, to block the efforts of manufacturers such as Nissan and Mitsubishi, who are doing it TODAY!

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