larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

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Ingineer said:
davewill said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
... One could argue that the $110K roadster wasn't exactly practical but it's hard to argue that it didn't help usher in the new age of EV's. Solar panels on cars could help spread awareness of PV in a similar way. The $70 LED lightbulb comes to mind, many early adapters bought them to support the technology and help it reach economy of scale, don't ask about the ROI, you could certainly do better in the stock market ...
Click to expand...
But the $110k roadster and the $70 LED flashlight actually worked as a usable car and a usable flashlight...something that mounting a solar panels on a LEAF's doesn't achieve.
Click to expand...
I can see the point, but it could also backfire in representing to the common lay-person that you could drive the LEAF on solar power and not have to plug in. Not only would it really not change in any way how you operate the car, it would be somewhat deceptive.

Personally, if I lived in San Diego, Dallas, or somewhere else where there is a lot of sun, I would pay an extra $1k to get the Solar ventilation option. (Like Toyota offers on the Prius) Just keeping the car cool in when parked in the summer sun could offset the hit to the pack from running the A/C full bore upon returning to the car, and also drastically improve comfort.

But connecting said solar array to the pack wouldn't do much unless you park for weeks at a time in the sun and seldom drive.

As I said, put it on your house, then you get dual-benefits!

-Phil
Click to expand...

I see you point but don't see how it's deceptive unless someone makes claims about it. Those of us who find solar panels sexy enough to put on a car are likely to add them to our house too, where they really make the difference. I just don't see the problem with it, if there is a market for it and that helps cell more solar panels for now, I'm all for it.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
Without careful thought, electric cars may very well spur the next nuclear energy revolution if they become widely adopted, at least some will argue that, even though EV's stand to reduce baseload waste.
Click to expand...
I would like to see another nuclear energy revolution, using the latest, safest, most efficient technology, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. While I am also in favor of renewables, I feel that we need to keep nuclear on the table if we are to rapidly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve our long-term energy security.
 
davewill said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
... One could argue that the $110K roadster wasn't exactly practical but it's hard to argue that it didn't help usher in the new age of EV's. Solar panels on cars could help spread awareness of PV in a similar way. The $70 LED lightbulb comes to mind, many early adapters bought them to support the technology and help it reach economy of scale, don't ask about the ROI, you could certainly do better in the stock market ...
Click to expand...
But the $110k roadster and the $70 LED flashlight actually worked as a usable car and a usable flashlight...something that mounting a solar panels on a LEAF's doesn't achieve.
Click to expand...

Um, the Leaf actually works as a usable car, adding solar panels wouldn't change that. Some may think of solar panels on the Leaf as a mater of aesthetics and sex appeal, the way some feel about tricking out their cars with lift kits or dropped suspension or whatever... I'd consider it if it seemed reasonably priced... all of which is entirely subjective, I concede that. There is no objective or scientific justification for solar panels on the Leaf, if Nissan or anyone else claimed otherwise, they'd be misleading the public.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
davewill said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
... One could argue that the $110K roadster wasn't exactly practical but it's hard to argue that it didn't help usher in the new age of EV's. Solar panels on cars could help spread awareness of PV in a similar way. The $70 LED lightbulb comes to mind, many early adapters bought them to support the technology and help it reach economy of scale, don't ask about the ROI, you could certainly do better in the stock market ...
Click to expand...
But the $110k roadster and the $70 LED flashlight actually worked as a usable car and a usable flashlight...something that mounting a solar panels on a LEAF's doesn't achieve.
Click to expand...
Um, the Leaf actually works as a usable car, adding solar panels wouldn't change that. ...
Click to expand...
But it doesn't work as a solar panel powered car, which it's purporting to be.
 
davewill said:
JRP3 said:
I'll throw out another concept, the only way to actually claim the use of solar power for your driving is to use the solar panel output directly. Grid tie doesn't actually count ...
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Utter bovine excrement.
Click to expand...
Care to debate that with facts? If you have grid tie solar the power goes into the grid. When you plug in your car guess what, the grid sees additional load so additional capacity has to come from somewhere else to compensate.
 
abasile said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
Without careful thought, electric cars may very well spur the next nuclear energy revolution if they become widely adopted, at least some will argue that, even though EV's stand to reduce baseload waste.
Click to expand...
I would like to see another nuclear energy revolution, using the latest, safest, most efficient technology, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. While I am also in favor of renewables, I feel that we need to keep nuclear on the table if we are to rapidly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve our long-term energy security.
Click to expand...
I agree fully on LFTR's. I'm not sure how we can increase clean, reliable baseload without them.
 
JRP3 said:
davewill said:
JRP3 said:
I'll throw out another concept, the only way to actually claim the use of solar power for your driving is to use the solar panel output directly. Grid tie doesn't actually count ...
Click to expand...
Utter bovine excrement.
Click to expand...
Care to debate that with facts? If you have grid tie solar the power goes into the grid. When you plug in your car guess what, the grid sees additional load so additional capacity has to come from somewhere else to compensate.
Click to expand...
I feed power into the grid from my solar panels in the afternoon, at the peak of the grid demand during hot summer days. Thus I am reducing the peak load on the grid. I pull the power back out at night, when the utility has excess generating capacity. My solar panels + LEAF are reducing the the capacity requirement of the grid.

However, I don't claim that my car is solar powered, because overall I pull more power out of the grid than I put in. Perhaps that's what you meant to say, that if I didn't have the LEAF I would be buying less power from the utility. That is true, but my LEAF is not stressing the grid's capacity.

Ray
 
I wouldn't pay for any solar panels on the car, if I had my option. It's simply the wrong place for solar panels, since the car is frequently covered, at low elevation, and has unpredictable orientation. The safety, aesthetics, and longevity of vehicle-mounted solar panels are also more restrictive than roof-mounted panels.

EVEN the internal parked ventilation would be better off tapping our massive 24kWh battery pack. An interior circulation/cooling option would be much less than 100W, and have no noticeable impact on range. The car is a rolling battery.

Keep the solar panels at home where they make sense, and use the battery when rolling.

As an aside -- I plan to replace my car about 5x as often as my solar panels. It's the wrong place to invest.
 
JRP3 said:
davewill said:
JRP3 said:
I'll throw out another concept, the only way to actually claim the use of solar power for your driving is to use the solar panel output directly. Grid tie doesn't actually count ...
Click to expand...
Utter bovine excrement.
Click to expand...
Care to debate that with facts? If you have grid tie solar the power goes into the grid. When you plug in your car guess what, the grid sees additional load so additional capacity has to come from somewhere else to compensate.
Click to expand...
Actually, if you AREN'T using gas in your car, the Electricity saved from just Petroleum Refining and Distribution operations will power your EV and then some. The Largest single consumer of electricity California are Petroleum operations. Assuming you replace a gas car with an EV, and charge off-peak, we end up with a more stable grid, and a little less electricity use.

-Phil
 
Must people degrade this thread into a ra ra sesion for more nukes. My friends and family suffering in Japan will slap you silly for pretending nuclear power is clean and safe. Go visit the meltdown in Japan if you are still confused and or ignorant. Maybe someday nuclear power will be truly safe and waste free but we are not there yet.


JRP3 said:
abasile said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
Without careful thought, electric cars may very well spur the next nuclear energy revolution if they become widely adopted, at least some will argue that, even though EV's stand to reduce baseload waste.
Click to expand...
I would like to see another nuclear energy revolution, using the latest, safest, most efficient technology, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. While I am also in favor of renewables, I feel that we need to keep nuclear on the table if we are to rapidly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve our long-term energy security.
Click to expand...
I agree fully on LFTR's. I'm not sure how we can increase clean, reliable baseload without them.
Click to expand...
 
I like the idea of Nissan partnering with sun power to sell solar carports like Ford has planned for focus EV buyers.

I do however like the idea of a big solar array on the car but I'm not sure I would buy that option to run the fan. I would rather put the money into a solar carport, a bigger battery or a bigger on board charger (6.6 or 10 kwh). These additions would improve my experience with the Leaf.

A big panel on top would up the Leafs cool factor/trendy appeal. This is low on my list of adds for the Leaf but still on the list and worth consideration.
 
davewill said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
...
Click to expand...
Um, the Leaf actually works as a usable car, adding solar panels wouldn't change that. ...
Click to expand...
But it doesn't work as a solar panel powered car, which it's purporting to be.[/quote]

That's news to me, who is purporting it to be a solar panel powered car?

At the auto show today I saw a nice example of a sexy full roof solar panel on the Fisker Karma, large enough to supplement CC and add a little, probably tiny, bit of range:
http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtests/sedans/1102_2012_fisker_karma_video/
 
EVDrive said:
Must people degrade this thread into a ra ra sesion for more nukes. My friends and family suffering in Japan will slap you silly for pretending nuclear power is clean and safe. Go visit the meltdown in Japan if you are still confused and or ignorant. Maybe someday nuclear power will be truly safe and waste free but we are not there yet.
Click to expand...

Did the nuke incident kill anyone?..nope. And it was as bad as it could get, a core meltdown!. Meanwhile Japan is buying lots and lots of NG to power their industry. How long can we keep that up?

The Fukijama plant was poorly planned, but you can be sure every other nuke in the world is carefully being looked over.. and many will be shut down as a result.

Look at the latest energy supply worries:

http://t.co/l4Ev96dS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The world’s vast undersea energy infrastructure—oil and gas platforms, wellheads, pipelines and pumps—is now vulnerable to attack by cheap submarines and unmanned vehicles."
 
Herm said:
EVDrive said:
Must people degrade this thread into a ra ra sesion for more nukes. My friends and family suffering in Japan will slap you silly for pretending nuclear power is clean and safe. Go visit the meltdown in Japan if you are still confused and or ignorant. Maybe someday nuclear power will be truly safe and waste free but we are not there yet.
Click to expand...

Did the nuke incident kill anyone?..nope. And it was as bad as it could get, a core meltdown!.
Click to expand...
At least three Fukushima workers died after the incident. Many areas are now uninhabitable and for awhile, some rice from that prefecture tested high for radiation. I'm sure there are far more other consequences than I've listed.
 
cwerdna said:
I'm sure there are far more other consequences than I've listed.
Click to expand...

Probably not, or the media would be all over it, they exaggerate enough as it is.. did those 3 workers die of radiation exposure?
 
davewill said:
JRP3 said:
Care to debate that with facts? ...
Click to expand...
No, because your statement wasn't a factual statement. The idea that the most cost effective form of home solar somehow isn't solar is just dumb.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what that sentence was supposed to mean, but I never said home solar wasn't the most cost effective use of solar. I'm merely pointing out the fact that adding some solar capacity to the grid is not the same thing as running an EV on solar. If you had a battery bank to store your solar instead of grid tie then it would be running on solar, though not as cost effective, or as efficient.
 
If you are going to talk about ignorance you should first educate yourself on the topic at hand. LFTR's are a completely different type of nuclear power that cannot melt down and do not produce large volumes of radioactive by products.
If you wish to learn instead of just react you can start here: http://ephase.blogspot.com/2011/03/plugging-in-to-thorium.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EVDrive said:
Must people degrade this thread into a ra ra sesion for more nukes. My friends and family suffering in Japan will slap you silly for pretending nuclear power is clean and safe. Go visit the meltdown in Japan if you are still confused and or ignorant. Maybe someday nuclear power will be truly safe and waste free but we are not there yet.
Click to expand...
 
Quite correct, and I never said an EV was stressing the grid capacity. Just pointing out that grid tied solar is really not the same thing as solar directly charging a car, either if car mounted or off grid with battery bank. I'm not trying to discourage grid tie solar at all, just pointing out the realities.
planet4ever said:
However, I don't claim that my car is solar powered, because overall I pull more power out of the grid than I put in. Perhaps that's what you meant to say, that if I didn't have the LEAF I would be buying less power from the utility. That is true, but my LEAF is not stressing the grid's capacity.

Ray
Click to expand...
 
Ingineer said:
Actually, if you AREN'T using gas in your car, the Electricity saved from just Petroleum Refining and Distribution operations will power your EV and then some. The Largest single consumer of electricity California are Petroleum operations. Assuming you replace a gas car with an EV, and charge off-peak, we end up with a more stable grid, and a little less electricity use.

-Phil
Click to expand...
Somewhat true. Much refinery electricity is generated on site from petroleum and petroleum by products, a smaller percentage comes from the grid. From what I've researched by not refining oil we make up for some of the power drawn from the grid by an EV but not all. Also oil is refined into other products besides transportation fuels so not all refinery electricity goes into gasoline production. Because of that my statements remain accurate regarding grid tie solar.
 

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