Update On DCQC/The Electric Highway Along I-5 in WA State

I read back in July that the electric highway would be in place by November 30 in WA state. Since I had not heard an update I decided to do a little calling around to find out how things were going. Today I spoke with Deborah Rapoport, for AeroVironment who said that there had been some delays but that things were still moving forward but she couldn’t really go into detail. I called around some more and got ahold of Tonia Buell, of WSDOT Communications who filled in some details. Tonia told me that there were delays with securing lease agreements with some of the locations and that they were still ongoing, it was expected that they would get worked through soon. She said of the 9 planned stations, 4 had signed lease agreements and were expected to begin installation by the end of this month and should be available for use by the end of the year. So, that’s the latest info I could find, looks like the DCQC network is on the verge of becoming a reality, which is very good news, especially with the cold, whet whether coming!

Thanks for doing this! I've been curious about how this project was going, but not curious enough to pick up the phone and start calling people!

That's great news. Thanks for sharing. I was beginning to believe that the installation of QC's along I-5 were just another victim of the recession.

GaslessInSeattle said:

.....................looks like the DCQC network is on the verge of becoming a reality, which is very good news, especially with the cold, whet whether coming!

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Amen, brother!

My little mid-morning travels today (rain, mid 30's F) convinced me that I'll have to pay much more attention to trip planning for the next several months.

Bill

Now if we could just figure out what happened in CA.

Hope it actually happens - its been a big tease till now.

1. QC info: In San Diego, we have a problem with utility demand charges to anyone who installs a QC unit that might be obscene. For example, if you exceed the upper limit of your allowed kilowatts, then the utility will assess a $20 per kilowatt charge! Since the QC units can put out 50kW, the demand charge can be up to $1000!!! If I was a host business considering whether to install a QC unit for my customers, I would have to make sure that that charge is never assessed. I wonder if the same applies to the Northwest. If so, that might impede the deployment of the QC units. My brother-in-law works for Seattle City Light. I'll have to ask him.


2 Driving in the rain: Have any of you Northwesterners figured out how much additional drag if any that rain causes? I am in San Diego and drove my Leaf in a Seattle-like downpour last weekend and got to wondering if there is additional drag that we might need to factor in our range estimates.

gmuzhik said:

1. QC info: In San Diego, we have a problem with utility demand charges to anyone who installs a QC unit that might be obscene. For example, if you exceed the upper limit of your allowed kilowatts, then the utility will assess a $20 per kilowatt charge! Since the QC units can put out 50kW, the demand charge can be up to $1000!!!

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There are actually several charges, and the actual cost to run a stand alone 50kW load for 15 minutes per month in San Diego is a multiple several TIMES $1000 per month (source: SDGE). The limit to trigger a charge is 20kW or above for any 15 minutes period (for commercial electricity).

gmuzhik said:

Driving in the rain: Have any of you Northwesterners figured out how much additional drag if any that rain causes? I am in San Diego and drove my Leaf in a Seattle-like downpour last weekend and got to wondering if there is additional drag that we might need to factor in our range estimates.

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In aircraft, there are no reductions for aerodynamic losses with precipitation while airborne or on the ground, but significant losses for runway performance (the wheels dragging through the muck). A properly drained highway, with no standing "contamination" (snow, slush, standing water, hail, etc) will have virtually no measurable road drag with proper tires (worn out, bald tires might be quite different).

Any range losses in the LEAF in rain would most likely be the heater use or the impact of colder than normal temps on the batteries. Or possibly windy conditions, and you're driving into a headwind. Losses that aircraft incur in bad weather are generally associated with de-ice and anti-ice efforts, which extract "bleed" air that has be heated and pressured by the turbine engines.

TonyWilliams said:

A properly drained highway, with no standing "contamination" (snow, slush, standing water, hail, etc) will have virtually no measurable road drag with proper tires (worn out, bald tires might be quite different).

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It really depends on how much water is on the road. In previous vehicles I have seen 10-20% reduction in fuel economy when it's raining even with brand new tires. I would expect similar in the LEAF. All this extra drag is from rolling resistance - water on the road really increases it.

drees said:

It really depends on how much water is on the road.

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I did specify that !! I agree.

I'd like states to pass a simple law that when gasoline stations renew their lease, they be mandated to put in at least one level 2 charging station. If they put in a level 3 they get some tax benefit.

I think we need to get as far away from gas stations as possible.

gmuzhik said:

In San Diego, we have a problem with utility demand charges to anyone who installs a QC unit that might be obscene. For example, if you exceed the upper limit of your allowed kilowatts, then the utility will assess a $20 per kilowatt charge! Since the QC units can put out 50kW, the demand charge can be up to $1000!!!

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The question is: what is it worth for SDG&E to be your infinite battery? At least in the near term, one could eliminate the demand charges by using a fixed battery bank and ensuring that the charging power to the fixed bank stays below the limit where the demand charge kicks in. With a big enough battery and 24 hr/day charging, one could QC quite a few cars. Since this would be a fixed application, the size and weight restrictions are much relaxed from those of an EV, so one could use a much cheaper (per kWh) lead acid battery bank. Although one could build a proof-of-concept system using off-the-shelf battery chargers, inverters and QC units, there would be significant economic advantages to designing a QC unit which would run directly from the fixed battery bank.

TRONZ said:

I think we need to get as far away from gas stations as possible.

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But they are ideally located to install EVSEs. They already have the space & the power connections (do they get 3-ph ?). They have also built business based on making money off selling other stuff & not gas.

Ofcourse, they would need to cleanup, if they expect anyone to hang around for a while.

tps said:

Although one could build a proof-of-concept system using off-the-shelf battery chargers, inverters and QC units, there would be significant economic advantages to designing a QC unit which would run directly from the fixed battery bank.

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Already been done in Japan... just under $70,000.

evnow said:

TRONZ said:

I think we need to get as far away from gas stations as possible.

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But they are ideally located to install EVSEs. They already have the space & the power connections (do they get 3-ph ?). They have also built business based on making money off selling other stuff & not gas.

Ofcourse, they would need to cleanup, if they expect anyone to hang around for a while.

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I think my concern is more one of conflicting business interests. Companies don't like selling a new product that will canibalize sales of their main product. If they do, they must artificially price parody the new product with the old or suffer a loss. It is becoming clear that legacy energy producers (oil, coal, gas) are closing ranks to manipulate EV infrastructure. XOM is the largest most vertically intigrated corporation in history. Inserting PU's into their portfolios is common and increasing dramatically. Independent electrical generation (PV) and storage needs to be an integral strategy for QC stations. Otherwise stations/prices will be at the whims of PU's and the oil companies that own them.

TRONZ said:

I think my concern is more one of conflicting business interests. Companies don't like selling a new product that will canibalize sales of their main product.

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Thats the old way of thinking - now companies say "better my product than competitors". Remember BP is part of the EV Project.

SDG&E Demand Charge:
Can one use 50 (or 100) kW for 14 minutes,
then shut off (or go below 20 kW) for 1 minute,
and continue that usage cycle,
and have NO Demand Charge?

garygid said:

SDG&E Demand Charge:
Can one use 50 (or 100) kW for 14 minutes,
then shut off (or go below 20 kW) for 1 minute,
and continue that usage cycle,
and have NO Demand Charge?

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It's the average demand over a 15 minute period.

So 50 kW for 14 minutes and 0 kW for 1 minute = 46.7 kW demand charge.

evnow said:

TRONZ said:

I think my concern is more one of conflicting business interests. Companies don't like selling a new product that will canibalize sales of their main product.

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Thats the old way of thinking - now companies say "better my product than competitors". Remember BP is part of the EV Project.

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Good point evnow. Seems like to me that perception is 99% of reality for many folks. Having gas stations offer charging would help bridge the perception divide, making it a more intuitive transition for folks to go from filling up to plugging in if they can do it in the same place. It also gives gas companies a way to embrace and profit from the new technology rather than try and kill it.