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TonyWilliams
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:18 pm

DrInnovation wrote:The super-lightweight i3 could get a lot of MPG out of a small motorbike engine, but even on a BMW motorcycle, which is literally a ton lighter lighter, the best was 62MPG (on a F650GS I believe).
Most motorcycles, with the rider, are grossly inefficient aerodynamically, compared to a clean small car. If you put that 650cc engine in a streamlined body of the same weight as the original motorcycle, the fuel economy would skyrocket.

Weight is only one factor.


http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/FuelMileage.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Herm
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:39 pm

its impossible to get super high efficiency out of a small engine.. an atkinson cycle will do better but you will actually need a bigger engine with its weight penalty (1.2L for 30kw).. since the range extender will seldom be used in a proper BEV design then its more important to keep it light and cheaaap. Think or the range extender as an emergency device. Surprised no one has come up with a single cylinder design using the generator as an active dampener... and you could always use the waste heat in winter.

I would even fuel it with canned propane.. yes you would only get an additional 20 miles of range but so what?.. screw in another can of propane. Keep it light.

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JRP3
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:26 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Most motorcycles, with the rider, are grossly inefficient aerodynamically, compared to a clean small car.
Motorcycles have a poor cd but a very small area. I think a car would need a very low cd to make up for the larger area.

DrInnovation
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:20 pm

Herm wrote:its impossible to get super high efficiency out of a small engine.. an atkinson cycle will do better but you will actually need a bigger engine with its weight penalty (1.2L for 30kw).. since the range extender will seldom be used in a proper BEV design then its more important to keep it light and cheaaap. Think or the range extender as an emergency device. Surprised no one has come up with a single cylinder design using the generator as an active dampener... and you could always use the waste heat in winter.

I would even fuel it with canned propane.. yes you would only get an additional 20 miles of range but so what?.. screw in another can of propane. Keep it light.
<snip>
You would need a lot more propane than a small cylinder to get 20miles. A unit like this
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... ogId=10053
produces 2kw-h, and uses about 1gal per hour so if a leaf used .25kw at 60mph it would get about 10mpgLP and take 2hrs and 2 gallons of propane to produce your 20mile emergency range.

A larger unit such as
http://www.generac.com/RV/Propane/Produ ... Pact_40LP/
Can produce 3.4kw/hr using .73 gallons of propane per hour. Only needing 1.5hr to get 20miles and yielding 20mpglp. Note the same unit is available in a petrol version producing 3.6kw and using only .55gallons/hr.
Loving the Volt. I've saved 29 gallons compared to a BEV+CUV. From 10/29/11 to 12/29/12, went 11097 on 27.7 gallons of gas + 2742kWh Total fuel costs=$259.27, yielding: 0.25 gal./100mi, 400.5 MPG, 101.73MPGe, 166.5 MPG$ or $.0234/mi.

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Ingineer
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:48 pm

Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

Image

Another pic:

Image

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/[/size] - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

eHelmholtz
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:09 pm

Ingineer wrote:Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)
Wow!, that's pretty impressive! I bought your portable EVSE upgrade but this encore steals the show! When will you make something similar available to others on the forum?
Last edited by eHelmholtz on Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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evnow
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:21 pm

Ingineer wrote:Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)
Wonder whether Nissan would ever make an official range extender trailer. Perhaps they can contract it out to Honda, who would be looking for work in a few years :lol:
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

ahagge
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:49 pm

Ingineer wrote:Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender.
-Phil
Phil - Have you worked out how to charge while moving yet? How are you planning to hook in, via the regen circuitry?

Anxiously awaiting more gory details...and pics! :mrgreen:
Ocean Blue SL-e
Per LEAF Spy as of 06/26/18: 11 bars, 222 GIDs, 53.4 AHr on new (04/30/15) Lizard battery (1st bar lost 12/22/17)
Orig. battery lost 4th bar at 177 GIDs, 43.19 AHr, 44.74 Hx, 65% SOH after 45 months

DrInnovation
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:45 pm

Ingineer wrote:Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)

-Phil
Totally Cool.. Even cooler that you had Kadota there checking it out.
What type of efficiency are you getting?
Loving the Volt. I've saved 29 gallons compared to a BEV+CUV. From 10/29/11 to 12/29/12, went 11097 on 27.7 gallons of gas + 2742kWh Total fuel costs=$259.27, yielding: 0.25 gal./100mi, 400.5 MPG, 101.73MPGe, 166.5 MPG$ or $.0234/mi.

JohnOver
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Re: The “range–extended” EV considered

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:03 pm

Ingineer wrote:Here's my Propane-Powered combination 30kW Quick-Charger/Range Extender. The Japanese guy to the left is Hidetoshi Kadota, Nissan's Chief Vehicle Engineer for the Leaf, he was asking me a lot of questions, and his English is so-so, but of course my Japanese is horrible! =)
Here are some pictures I took at the event Phil:

Image
I love Kadota-san's little smile in this photo


Image

I really like what you've done here. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help productize this. I think it's probably too expensive to sell the the average user, but I think renting it out would be quite feasible.
2011 LEAF (Silver SL+QC) - 6/24/11 (on 2/3/08 reserved an Aptera 2e #372)
AV EVSE, plus Ingineer's 240V upgrade, and a fist full of adapters
Other cars: '05 Honda Accord Hybrid, '96 Honda Odyssey
6.5 kW PV, making ~24 kWh per day (average).

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