Blink membership plans & fees (Warning : new RPA required)

greenleaf · Dec 15, 2011

oakwcj said:
Ecotality won the contract with the Department of Energy for the EV Project. Ecotality is a middleman. They didn't give the EVSEs to us. They got a federal contract to do it. The original contract I signed stipulated that I would get ownership of the EVSE at the end of the contract term in return for supplying usage data to the EV Project. The contract specified that it could be amended only with the consent of both parties. Later on, Ecotality entered into some additional contracts with regional air quality agencies, and obviously realized that the contract wouldn't allow them to meet the conditions of their new deals. That's what led them to try this scheme of turning contracts with quite reasonable conditions into the typical one-sided consumer contract used by banks and TV providers. But these EVSEs don't really belong to Ecotality. They're double-dipping by using hardware paid for by the Federal government to facilitate their new contracts with local and regional agencies. If Ecotality came to me and said, please be a good citizen and help the Bay Area Air Quality Management District compile good data, I'd say sure. That's quite a different kettle of fish than letting Ecotality retain title to my EVSE along with the power to unilaterally change the terms of the agreement according to Ecotality's whim. My contract is with Ecotality acting as Steven Chu's agent; it's not with Ecotality, the profit-seeking company.

+1

evnow · Dec 15, 2011

oakwcj said:
The original contract I signed stipulated that I would get ownership of the EVSE at the end of the contract term in return for supplying usage data to the EV Project.

I thougt they had the right to take it away after the 2/3 year period. But, we guessed that they won't do that.

BTW, one of the problems with something like this is that DOE may ask Blink for more / different data. It would be rather onerous for Ecotality to get an agreement from everyone to make those changes. IMO, if Ecotality had started out with this clause, most would have signed on to it, since as I noted, this is the std practice. Doesn't make this practice any better - but atleast not any worse.

oakwcj · Dec 15, 2011

evnow said:
oakwcj said:

The original contract I signed stipulated that I would get ownership of the EVSE at the end of the contract term in return for supplying usage data to the EV Project.

Click to expand...

I thougt they had the right to take it away after the 2/3 year period. But, we guessed that they won't do that.

BTW, one of the problems with something like this is that DOE may ask Blink for more / different data. It would be rather onerous for Ecotality to get an agreement from everyone to make those changes. IMO, if Ecotality had started out with this clause, most would have signed on to it, since as I noted, this is the std practice. Doesn't make this practice any better - but atleast not any worse.

There is no evidence whatever that DOE has anything to do with Ecotality's attempt to make unilateral changes in the RPA. I wouldn't be surprised if Ecotality's contract with DOE actually prohibits these changes.

I would not have entered into an agreement which gave Ecotality unilateral power to change its terms. They have too much leverage in this situation, because they can repossess the EVSE if they terminate the agreement with cause. What you call standard practice is a very recent phenomenon, and is not typical of most contracts outside of the credit card, mobile phone, and TV industries.

Paragraph 6 of the original agreement provides that title and ownership to the EVSE is retained by Ecotality through the term of the agreement. Paragraph 8 provides that at the end of the agreement "ECOtality agrees to transfer ownership of the EVSE to the Participant and allow the EVSE to retain its basic charging capability." There is no ambiguity in these provisions.

greenleaf · Jan 3, 2012

OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?

saywatt · Jan 3, 2012

greenleaf said:
OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?

I would imagine setting up a new account means signing the new RPA agreement.

oakwcj · Jan 3, 2012

saywatt said:
greenleaf said:

OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?

Click to expand...

I would imagine setting up a new account means signing the new RPA agreement.

Why would you imagine that, if the person setting up the new account has never signed an RPA in the first place, because s/he isn't a participant in the EV project?

wsbca · Feb 3, 2012

oakwcj said:
saywatt said:

greenleaf said:

OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?

Click to expand...

I would imagine setting up a new account means signing the new RPA agreement.

Click to expand...

Why would you imagine that, if the person setting up the new account has never signed an RPA in the first place, because s/he isn't a participant in the EV project?

Quotes above for context...

I just went on to blinknetwork.com and poked at the InCard membership signup procedure. At the payment stage there are checkboxes for both "Terms and Conditions" and RPA Terms and Conditions, both with links. However, they both (even the RPA labeled one) point to the same
page: https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No mention on that page of the residential agreement, no verbiage such as shown in this thread or the companion thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=6744&start=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

. What do you think? Is this an error? Seems to me they might record that you checked the RPA box, thinking they had provided a link to it when they didn't, and that could come back to bite you, or have they perhaps disconnected the RPA from the card membership, with the checkbox being an artifact? In which case why not just remove it instead of changing what it points to.

This refers to signing up for membership when already logged in. The membership signup if not logged in has only the one Terms and Conditions checkbox, with no reference to the RPA, at least on the first page where you supply identification info (but not payment).

greenleaf · Feb 3, 2012

wsbca said:
I just went on to blinknetwork.com and poked at the InCard membership signup procedure. At the payment stage there are checkboxes for both "Terms and Conditions" and RPA Terms and Conditions, both with links. However, they both (even the RPA labeled one) point to the same
page: https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a change. Previously I am pretty sure the RPA link did point to the RPA terms.

91040 · Feb 3, 2012

greenleaf said:
wsbca said:

I just went on to blinknetwork.com and poked at the InCard membership signup procedure. At the payment stage there are checkboxes for both "Terms and Conditions" and RPA Terms and Conditions, both with links. However, they both (even the RPA labeled one) point to the same
page: https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

This is a change. Previously I am pretty sure the RPA link did point to the RPA terms.

I concur. The RPA terms and conditions link previously took me to a page which had an agreement with new verbiage and conditions. I will not sign up for membership unless it is very clear that my current RPA will not change.

greenleaf · Feb 3, 2012

Since we wanted to have the InCard, I had my spouse sign up for it and checked very carefully none of the new RPA terms is sneaked into the agreement.

greenleaf · Feb 27, 2012

Fees to start in 54 hours. I am waiting to see if the public Blink EVSEs will refuse to charge if I use a non-credit-card-registered RFID card.

At $1/hour, this comes up to be about 27 cents / kWh.

This is 4.4 times my off-peak tier1 and tier2 PG&E E9A rate or 1.7 times my off-peak tier3 rate.

lemketron · Feb 27, 2012

greenleaf said:
Fees to start in 54 hours. I am waiting to see if the public Blink EVSEs will refuse to charge if I use a non-credit-card-registered RFID card.

At $1/hour, this comes up to be about 27 cents / kWh.

Seems a bit early to start charging for charging.
My guess is that they will only see lower usage and very little revenue this year.

Randy · Feb 27, 2012

greenleaf said:
Fees to start in 54 hours. I am waiting to see if the public Blink EVSEs will refuse to charge if I use a non-credit-card-registered RFID card.

At $1/hour, this comes up to be about 27 cents / kWh.

This is 4.4 times my off-peak tier1 and tier2 PG&E E9A rate or 1.7 times my off-peak tier3 rate.

Two things...The fees for charging start on April 1, as far as I know...

Second, commercial rates (with demand charges) are not comparable with residential off-peak rates. You have to look at it as a convenience that will give you additional range when you need it...

If you must compare it to your residential rates, compare it to your peak TOU rate since that is what you would pay at home if you were charging during the afternoon/early evening...Then it doesn't look too bad...

turbo2ltr · Feb 27, 2012

The links to the T&Cs are different again.

https://www.blinknetwork.com/rpa-terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I actually have two blink accounts. Not sure why. I have two cards as well. The one I've been using is on the account that is not linked to my home charger. I think I'll sign up on that one.

turbo2ltr · Feb 27, 2012

Hmm, so my other blink account that's not tied to my home charger, does NOT have the RPA checkbox on the signup page, just the T&C. Seems like the easiest thing to do if you don't want the new RPA is to create a second blink account.

greenleaf · Feb 27, 2012

Randy said:
greenleaf said:

Fees to start in 54 hours. I am waiting to see if the public Blink EVSEs will refuse to charge if I use a non-credit-card-registered RFID card.

At $1/hour, this comes up to be about 27 cents / kWh.

This is 4.4 times my off-peak tier1 and tier2 PG&E E9A rate or 1.7 times my off-peak tier3 rate.

Click to expand...

Two things...The fees for charging start on April 1, as far as I know...

Second, commercial rates (with demand charges) are not comparable with residential off-peak rates. You have to look at it as a convenience that will give you additional range when you need it...

If you must compare it to your residential rates, compare it to your peak TOU rate since that is what you would pay at home if you were charging during the afternoon/early evening...Then it doesn't look too bad...

Strange. I must seen the 3/1/2012 date somewhere but now I cannot find it! I also cannot find the start date on Blink's website.

For myself, I am comparing with the off peak rate because if I charge in the day, it really is an opportunistic charging. I can forgo it and I still have the range to make it home. And if I happen to be home, I would not charge at the peak rate during the day.

greenleaf · Feb 27, 2012

turbo2ltr said:
Hmm, so my other blink account that's not tied to my home charger, does NOT have the RPA checkbox on the signup page, just the T&C. Seems like the easiest thing to do if you don't want the new RPA is to create a second blink account.

That's what I did. I had my spouse sign up for a new blink account to avoid the RPA issues.

DarkStar · Feb 28, 2012

Randy said:
The fees for charging start on April 1, as far as I know...

This is what I understand as well. Part of the reason is that the new 2.0 firmware needs to be pushed to the commercial units before they can start charging. Since they haven't even finished upgrading the "beta testers" (a.k.a. residential units) yet, who knows really how far out they are.

davewill · Feb 28, 2012

Yep, I saw that the RPA is back. I used the contact page to write them a complaint about it. Told them that I would definitely NOT be signing up for membership as long as the new RPA extends my contract period and gives them unilateral power to change the agreement. I don't expect to get any sort of useful reply. Go EVOasis!

wsbca · Dec 3, 2012

A post today in another RPA related thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=10781) from FairwoodRed noted that the checkbox for the new RPA is no longer present when you go to activate a membership from an existing EV Project Blink login. I went back in and found that to be true, so I activated a membership which is now hopefully linked to my original inCard.

My spouse had joined directly on her own some time ago so we could get a working card without committing to the open-ended RPA, and requested a card, but the card never came despite several followup inquiries, so we've been without a linked card since the fees kicked in. Hopefully now this means we can get a charge if we need it. At 40c/kWh it will have to be a pretty urgent need for any in-town situation, but at least we'll have the option. We did drive through Santa Ysabel this weekend (in an ICE car) and saw the L2 and DC chargers there - we are looking forward to trying a DC-enabled Julian trip in the Leaf sometime.

Blink membership plans & fees (Warning : new RPA required)

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!