SCCA Enduro Autocross pics

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nader

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I had a chance to run the Leaf at the local SCCA autocross last weekend in the HS class. It was the first time I had ran the Enduro setup, which has you run 4 laps back to back. Sadly I ran with the stock tires which are pretty horrible for the tight turns of autocross. I am running a prototype coilover and rear sway bar which worked well, but caused even more pain for the stock Ecopias. I'll probably run with stickier tires next time around. I did notice that with hard ABS braking at end of a straight the brakes would take a second to release even though my foot was off the pedal. Anyone else ever experienced that? Energy economy was .8 Mi/Kwh for the 6 miles of driving i did on track. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This car has potential to be an autocross monster. With a sticky tire and Ingineer's upcoming mod to unleash full power from a standstill this car will rip out of the turns.

Also, before anyone asks I'll be doing a separate post regarding the suspension.


IMG_1061 by racinricpix, on Flickr


IMG_1058 by racinricpix, on Flickr


IMG_1062 by racinricpix, on Flickr
 
HS or H Stock is basically the slowest of the slow. The pretty much ignored the fact that I had modified suspension since the tires were so crappy.

Also the energy economy was lower that expected since I started with a full battery, aka no regen.
 
I know it's apples to oranges, but for curiosity sake, what times were you running and what other cars were running in the HS class with you?
 
nader said:
Also the energy economy was lower that expected since I started with a full battery, aka no regen.
Click to expand...
Next time start with a lower SOC, so you're not carrying around the weight of all those extra electrons.

Thanks for posting this. I'm tempted to try autocross myself.
 
sproqitman said:
nader said:
Also the energy economy was lower that expected since I started with a full battery, aka no regen.
Click to expand...
Next time start with a lower SOC, so you're not carrying around the weight of all those extra electrons.

Thanks for posting this. I'm tempted to try autocross myself.
Click to expand...

haha! I couldn't help but plugin once I found a 50amp 240v outlet.
 
TNleaf said:
I know it's apples to oranges, but for curiosity sake, what times were you running and what other cars were running in the HS class with you?
Click to expand...

They haven't posted times for the Enduro yet but you can compare with Sundays regular Solo runs for comparison. I was the only HS car that ran. The next closest was '95 Corolla that ran F Street Prepared (FSP), he ran a 45.812. My best lap was 42.896.

Run Times: http://www.fresnoscca.com/results/2012/2012-event3fin.html

If you want to get a sense of how the course was laid out here is some video I took of my brother driving his Mustang. He broke in to the 39's.

https://vimeo.com/37044991
 
nader said:
I had a chance to run the Leaf at the local SCCA autocross last weekend in the HS class. It was the first time I had ran the Enduro setup, which has you run 4 laps back to back. [...] I am running a prototype coilover and rear sway bar which worked well, but caused even more pain for the stock Ecopias.
Click to expand...
You can run in H Stock with coilovers and a rear sway bar?! Are rules different for the Enduro format?

nader said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This car has potential to be an autocross monster.
Click to expand...
Don't say it too loudly on here. Some people get all bent out of shape when they see someone trying to make a pig into a really really quick pig.

nader said:

IMG_1058 by racinricpix, on Flickr
Click to expand...
That looks the bidness, right there! (The stance, not the ghetto masking tape lettering :D .)
 
I said the same thing about HS, but they said because the tires were so crappy that it didn't really matter. Pardon the tape job. It was super last minute.
 
First off, lemme say that this is truly awesome! I'm sure a few of us have been waiting for someone to do something like this and I have a few of questions for you.

- Last month I was looking at the 2012 SCCA classifications for this year and saw that the Leaf was still NOC and as NOC and w/o a displacement, it would be ridiculously classes as an A-Mod. Did something change recently to allow your Leaf to run in HS?
- For some Enduro courses I've experienced some detectable brake fade at the 3rd hot lap. Were you feeling any?
- Does your region to a PAX adjusted list for the event?
- Will you be campaigning your Leaf this year?

Thanks for sharing. Would love to try autoX-ing my Leaf but until a DCQC station gets set up between the Seattle area and the areas where our closest regional autoXs are held, trailering may be the only alternative other than L2 charging for twice for half the day.
 
Yes, the extra half-second braking in response to lower-speed "panic" braking is normal.

At higher speeds the panic-braking response is (apparently) to bring the car to a full stop.

It is said that tapping the "go-faster" (after the "panic" braking is detected) will terminate the car's Panic-Response.

There is a thread on this kind of Braking. Let us know what you experience.

Unknown: Is there a way to disable the LEAF's Panic-Braking-Response?
 
Honestly I think the guys just put in HS because they assumed it would be so slow. It was only my 2nd time running autocross so I'm still learning how everything works in regards to classes, etc. Haven't given much thought to campaigning the Leaf but it probably makes more sense than towing the car to track days. Everytime I come in from a session I plugin. Our fairgrounds do have 240v 50amp outlet so I can top up afterwards to get some juice for the drive home. I do want to get some sticky tires and try it again. I'm thinking of trying the Federal 595RS-R since the tredawear is 140 and if understand correctly this would put me in a

I didn't notice brake fade but by the end I could definitely smell them and that's because I was charging the finish and doing full ABS braking. I imagine fade wasn't too far off.

Here is the PAX list:
http://www.fresnoscca.com/results/2012/2012-enduro1pax.html
 
garygid said:
Yes, the extra half-second braking in response to lower-speed "panic" braking is normal.

At higher speeds the panic-braking response is (apparently) to bring the car to a full stop.

It is said that tapping the "go-faster" (after the "panic" braking is detected) will terminate the car's Panic-Response.

There is a thread on this kind of Braking. Let us know what you experience.

Unknown: Is there a way to disable the LEAF's Panic-Braking-Response?
Click to expand...

yeah it feels like the car almost comes to a complete stop, which is an odd feeling considering your foot is already off of the brake.
 
Excellent! Very well done! This creates a very positive image for the Leaf and will buy it some credibility. As soon as people are aware that there is some potential in this car for fun, it will help to change things. I've been autocrossing for a decade now and aside from bracket racing this is the only other performance motorsports that I can see a Leaf can participating in going against ICEs.

I guess you can't give much comparison to how it felt to other similarly classed (GS or HS) cars, can you? Can you share your observations and opinions on how the Tien Basis suspension compared to the OEM? When you autoXed the first time was it in the Leaf as well? I was looking at your PAX times and see that your region counts all the laps of Enduro. In the WWSCC we only count the fastest lap, similar to time attack. Were all your laps clean? What was the setup of the ESP Mustang you drove? Were the conditions clear and dry for everyone's runs? Which car did you run first?

If you're seriously thinking about running in Stock class you will need R-comps to be competitive. Hoosier A6's or Kumho V710's are still the class leaders. Referring to the latest Grassroots motorsports R-comp tire review will give you the best assessment. Were R-comps common among others running in the non-ST classes?

So just to verify, the Leaf was still NOC by your region, right? I was considering running a Leaf this year, if anything for at least one practice day, but I am in the same boat as Drivesolo. Our Leafs won't make it unless we trailer them. And even then I think it would present a very poor impression to show up w/ it on a trailer. The way you did it was the way it has to be done to stand a good chance of earning credibility; drive it to the event - race - drive it home.

Again, well done! Sorry for all the questions, just very happy to see something like this being done. You've done a huge service to the Leaf's image and acceptance.
 
Drivesolo said:
- For some Enduro courses I've experienced some detectable brake fade at the 3rd hot lap. Were you feeling any?
Click to expand...
nader said:
I didn't notice brake fade but by the end I could definitely smell them and that's because I was charging the finish and doing full ABS braking. I imagine fade wasn't too far off.
Click to expand...
The Leaf brakes will likely show fade for anyone the first time they're pushed. They've never been bedded in like you'd normally do on a high performance car before such an event. Easy to fix though...
 
Nader,

Take a look at my post under "Scary Brake Problem" for some observations about Brake Assist. I would really like to find a way to permanently disable it. Pressing the accelerator pedal (even slightly) should immediately release the brakes.

Gerry
 
RedLeader said:
Excellent! Very well done! This creates a very positive image for the Leaf and will buy it some credibility. As soon as people are aware that there is some potential in this car for fun, it will help to change things. I've been autocrossing for a decade now and aside from bracket racing this is the only other performance motorsports that I can see a Leaf can participating in going against ICEs.

I guess you can't give much comparison to how it felt to other similarly classed (GS or HS) cars, can you? Can you share your observations and opinions on how the Tien Basis suspension compared to the OEM? When you autoXed the first time was it in the Leaf as well? I was looking at your PAX times and see that your region counts all the laps of Enduro. In the WWSCC we only count the fastest lap, similar to time attack. Were all your laps clean? What was the setup of the ESP Mustang you drove? Were the conditions clear and dry for everyone's runs? Which car did you run first?

If you're seriously thinking about running in Stock class you will need R-comps to be competitive. Hoosier A6's or Kumho V710's are still the class leaders. Referring to the latest Grassroots motorsports R-comp tire review will give you the best assessment. Were R-comps common among others running in the non-ST classes?

So just to verify, the Leaf was still NOC by your region, right? I was considering running a Leaf this year, if anything for at least one practice day, but I am in the same boat as Drivesolo. Our Leafs won't make it unless we trailer them. And even then I think it would present a very poor impression to show up w/ it on a trailer. The way you did it was the way it has to be done to stand a good chance of earning credibility; drive it to the event - race - drive it home.

Again, well done! Sorry for all the questions, just very happy to see something like this being done. You've done a huge service to the Leaf's image and acceptance.
Click to expand...

Ok lot's of questions here. I'll try and answer them the best I can but I'm still new to autocross so bare with me.

The Tein's were a huge improvement over stock and I quite liked the ride quality. For me the only downside was that I couldn't set it low enough. Currently the Teins are off and I am testing a prototype 3-way adjustable setup with a rear bar. This setup is much stiffer than the Teins and not the most comfortable for street use. If anything it's more like a clubsport application minus the camber plates. First time I autox'd was in my brother's the Mustang a few weeks ago. It has coilovers, swaybars a few boltons and Kumho street tires.

I dont think they'll let me run HS once I get a stickier tire. I ran only one car that day. They made a mistake and put me down twice when the Mustang should have been my brother's name. Great weather. Mid 60's and sunny. In total I clipped 3 cones, so +3.

If I run Hoosiers or Victoracers what class would that put me in? Someone told me that a treadwear under 140 keeps you in a street tire class.
 
The tire you're allowed depends on if you're running in a street tire class, regular class or modified class:
- Street Tire class is allow a DOT legal tire tread wear as low as 140. ie: Kumho XS, Falken Azenis RT-615K
- Regular classes are allowed a DOT legal tire w/ a tread wear as low as 40. ie: Kumho V710, Hoosier A6
- Mod classes are allowed to run pretty much anything. ie: fresh super chewing gum spread over a wheel.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2012_Solo_Rules_February_reduced.pdf


Sounds like the proper classification of your car based on your mods would most likely be HSP (H Street Prepared), assuming that a bone stock Leaf was HS. If you chose to run in a Street Tire class you would be indexed by the 2012 PAX modifier to get your PAX/RTP time.

http://home.comcast.net/~paxrtp/rtp2012.html

Essentially, if your regional SCCA will allow you to run and compete in HS, assuming that you had other competitors, an R-comp is necessary to be competitive (assuming they are also running r-comps). The rule-of-thumb difference between a street tire and an R-comp in autoX is ~2 seconds.
 

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