klapauzius
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Wed May 02, 2012 7:38 pm

I think the foremost thing to do is to vote for the right people, by which I mean candidates that also have a real chance of exerting some political will.

Where this does not work, a lot more needs to be done to convince people (= voters), that they have to start acting in their own interest (as well as in the interest of their fellow humans) and demand this from their politicians. The vast majority of people are either oblivious to the problem or think they have more pressing matters at hand (e.g. jobs, education, healthcare, retirement).

Once you have this as "mainstream" politics, the fix will come faster than you think.

The first thing I would do is overhaul the current voting system here in the US, which is hopelessly outdated, and essentially cements a 2 party system. A party like the green party will never have any real political power here, despite the fact that they could get between 3 and 10% of the vote, if there was a modern proportional voting system in place here.

AndyH
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 10:52 am

Maybe my problem, klapauzius, but I have a difficult time seeing how our politicians can be a solution to anything at this point - especially if we need to have anything done quickly.

Even if we replace everyone in the White House and Congress and Supreme Court, the most likely replacements are also supported by the large number of dollars from the fossil fuel industry - and the closer we get to actually breaking the oil habit the harder the oil industry is going to fight back - not unlike the way any living organism will fight for survival when threatened.

For a real-world look at what it takes to get non-conventional legislation through a state political structure, watch this from about 44 minutes to 60 minutes. This is only part of what it took for New Mexico architect Michael Reynolds to get official permission to build experimental housing on his own land:



We may have to side-step our political system and join the organizations and movements that are already building the parallel systems - they're working as if the 'old' systems don't exist -- they're being the change they want to see.

edits...updated links to Garbage Warrior
Last edited by AndyH on Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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AndyH
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 10:53 am

Solutions...

Energy / Transportation: Rocky Mountain Institute's "Reinventing Fire"

How we can get completely off oil, nuclear and coal; $5 trillion cheaper than the status quo; with no act of congress or new technology; by business for profit.

http://www.ted.com/talks/amory_lovins_a ... nergy.html
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Smidge204
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 11:19 am

AndyH wrote:Rocky Mountain Institute's "Reinventing Fire"[/url]
Which reminds me, I need to finish reading that...

=Smidge=

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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 12:17 pm

klapauzius wrote:I think the foremost thing to do is to vote for the right people, by which I mean candidates that also have a real chance of exerting some political will.
Nice synchronicity. Note the connections to political pressure, and the agrochemical industry...


klapauzius wrote:Where this does not work, a lot more needs to be done to convince people (= voters), that they have to start acting in their own interest (as well as in the interest of their fellow humans) and demand this from their politicians. The vast majority of people are either oblivious to the problem or think they have more pressing matters at hand (e.g. jobs, education, healthcare, retirement).
And even those folks that WANT to understand have to severely filter their sources. So far, the denial industry has been able to outspend and very successfully misdirect the truth.


http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7921
klapauzius wrote:Once you have this as "mainstream" politics, the fix will come faster than you think.
I agree completely - I just don't have any idea how to get it there! How do we do that?
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AndyH
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow

Thu May 03, 2012 12:37 pm

lpickup wrote:
Nekota wrote:there is enough uranium in sea water for fuel to last longer than the sun.
There's a nice discussion of this here: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/with ... _163.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
lpickup - Ok - I'm catching up! ;) - that's MacKay's book "Sustainable Energy - without the hot air" - excellent!

Here's an older thread from this forum: "A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables"
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4848

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AndyH
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 1:17 pm

Solutions...

I've been trying to understand how, and have been working toward being completely off-grid since before I retired from the USAF. This has been the single most referenced book in my collection on the hows and why's of energy use and alternate energy for home and personal transportation. The author, William Kemp, is a Canadian that's been off-grid for at least 15 years. The book covers it all - efficiency, passive heating/cooling, solar electric, solar thermal, wind, micro-hydro - with real examples and how-to info and sources. The book will take a newby from basic science through system design and sizing, then provide examples of folks that are already 'doing it that way' successfully. The author has also designed and built a plug-in series hybrid car that burns biodiesel when it burns anything. (His biodiesel production is from waste oil and is processed with solar thermal- and solar electric-derived energy exclusively.)

The Renewable Energy Handbook
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/The-Renewabl ... c=b-search
http://www.aztext.com/

The Zero Carbon Car
http://green.autoblog.com/2007/09/08/bu ... biodiesel/
http://aztext.com/zero_carbon_car.cfm
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klapauzius
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 7:09 pm

AndyH wrote:Maybe my problem, klapauzius, but I have a difficult time seeing how our politicians can be a solution to anything at this point - especially if we need to have anything done quickly.


We may have to side-step our political system and join the organizations and movements that are already building the parallel systems - they're working as if the 'old' systems don't exist -- they're being the change they want to see.
Nope, big mistake! Look at occupy. The power to actually make things happen on a grand scale rests mostly with the political system (and whoever controls it).
Sure you can have your little initiatives here and there, but this will have a minimal impact at best.
The problem with all the whatever-root organization is that they are not coherent.
And coherent action is what is required.

An example:

Germanys anti-nuclear-power movement has been working for decades to no avail. Then the ruling coalition figures they are going to lose a vote, and nuclear power is done for (almost) good in Germany. What grassroots organizations could not accomplish over three decades was done by one single person (the chancellor, i.e. the head of the government) in mere weeks.

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TomT
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 7:15 pm

Sorry, but I find that a very sad commentary as nuclear can be an excellent source of power. France is an excellent example of that. If Germany follows through on that, I strongly suspect that it is going to come back and bite them very firmly on the ass!
klapauzius wrote:Germanys anti-nuclear-power movement has been working for decades to no avail. Then the ruling coalition figures they are going to lose a vote, and nuclear power is done for (almost) good in Germany. What grassroots organizations could not accomplish over three decades was done by one single person (the chancellor, i.e. the head of the government) in mere weeks.
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klapauzius
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Re: World Energy Use - There's No Tomorrow - Let's Fix This!

Thu May 03, 2012 7:37 pm

TomT wrote:Sorry, but I find that a very sad commentary as nuclear can be an excellent source of power. France is an excellent example of that. If Germany follows through on that, I strongly suspect that it is going to come back and bite them very firmly on the ass!
klapauzius wrote:Germanys anti-nuclear-power movement has been working for decades to no avail. Then the ruling coalition figures they are going to lose a vote, and nuclear power is done for (almost) good in Germany. What grassroots organizations could not accomplish over three decades was done by one single person (the chancellor, i.e. the head of the government) in mere weeks.
I agree...especially as they are going to shut down perfectly safe power plants in Germany, and then will end up buying power from some 60s-left-over-soviet-style plant in Eastern Europe, where
redundancy means 2 stripes of duct tape instead of chewing gum...

Irrespective of the content, the example was meant to illustrate the awesome power of politics vs. "initiatives' :o

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