Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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Interestingly enough, in the video above it talkes about "power loss" waranty, not capacity per se. Nissan apparently DOES NOT cover loss of capacity to 80% at all ( as I thought it did). That is considered normal according to the rep in the video.

Now, loss of power...how do you quantify that?! "It's not moving as a jack rabbit anymore?" Is that it? I wonder... Pretty crafty, Nissan.

Personally, I hope to replace that battery anyway in about 6-7 years with a double density product, delivering at least 200 miles range. Lithium air, baby (by IBM).
 
azdre said:
Let's see if I can answer all of your questions:

* We always charge to 100% (we drive it a lot, 17,000 miles in 14 months of driving).
* We do 'top it off' a lot. That's the one item we got 4/5 stars on the battery check in March 2012.
* The car sat at 100% for a month in May, 2011, not plugged in.
* It's almost always garaged or in covered parking.
* We get the low battery warning about once a month.
* Never turtled. Been meaning to try this out though.
* We've QC'd 2-3 times this spring.
* There's been no error messages (aside from the A/C fiasco last summer, please don't make me relive that one.)
* My husband is a nut about keeping the tire pressure monitored and consistant.
* I'll pull the carwings data and add it to here tonight.

I'm thinking I should take it in to the dealer for some documentation even if they turn me away initially.

Yes, I would, in your situation.

I don't intend to be critical, but given your location, if heat and time spent at 100% charge are the greatest variables in loss of capacity, Your 12th bar, could perhaps, be just be the first "canary" to stop signing.

Please report back, when you find out more, about how much range and kWh capacity that bar corresponds to.
 
azdre said:
Let's see if I can answer all of your questions:

* We always charge to 100% (we drive it a lot, 17,000 miles in 14 months of driving).
* We do 'top it off' a lot. That's the one item we got 4/5 stars on the battery check in March 2012.
* The car sat at 100% for a month in May, 2011, not plugged in.
* It's almost always garaged or in covered parking.
* We get the low battery warning about once a month.
* Never turtled. Been meaning to try this out though.
* We've QC'd 2-3 times this spring.
* There's been no error messages (aside from the A/C fiasco last summer, please don't make me relive that one.)
* My husband is a nut about keeping the tire pressure monitored and consistant.
* I'll pull the carwings data and add it to here tonight.

I'm thinking I should take it in to the dealer for some documentation even if they turn me away initially.


the "topping off" is not that bad if you drive it right away. sitting at 100% for a month is definitely not good.

as far as heading to the dealership, i would most definitely do that. get copies of any info they give if (if possible) very anxious to hear how they respond to your situation
 
This is very interesting driving data. I suspect you'll end up wishing you had paid more attention to (high) battery SOC than (low) tire pressure.
 
ILETRIC said:
Now, loss of power...how do you quantify that?! "It's not moving as a jack rabbit anymore?" Is that it? I wonder... Pretty crafty, Nissan.

Permanent loss of power should be easy to see on the dashboard, you should lose one of the "power circles" (to the right of the regen circles).
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
... the "topping off" is not that bad if you drive it right away. ...
But this "topping off" category means they didn't drive the battery down to 80% before topping up, which means the battery stays at >80% for the entire charge-drive-charge cycle.
 
garygid said:
Can you meet somebody in Phoenix with an SOC-Meter and see
what reading you get after an 80% charge, and after a 100% charge?

I'll see what I can do.

In regards to the video, I find it very scary. I'm not sure what 'power loss' is supposed to be. So, I don't lose power but my range is 30 miles at some point and that would not be covered? I don't think that will fly.
 
You are the first on-forum report of a Loss of a Capacity Bar, I believe.

Down 15% is ... disturbing to see it happen after just 14 months,
but you MIGHT have started with a low-capacity battery?

It looks like having access to an SOC-Meter, even before purchase,
would be a handy thing for us all.

One post earlier stated that the dealer said their LEAF was "down 2%"
in capacity.

That is first report that a dealer was able to measure the Capacity.
Of course, I could have been just "imaginary" information.

Can anybody verify that a dealer can "see" the Capacity percentage
with their Consult III+ machine, and how to ask for that test?
 
smkettner said:
How many battery temperature bars during the long 100% storage?
Are you at the top of the battery temp scale when you top off?

I've never seen anything unusual with the battery temperature. Mid-range always. I was out of state for the month of storage, so I have no way of knowing what the battery temperature was during that time. I'm also not sure that it was at 100%, it could have been less, it wasn't really a priority for me at the time. We were told the car could handle the storage, and when we came back it had lost next to nothing. We did remove it from the Blink, because at the time, the Blink was pretty buggy and didn't want the car attached to it unattended for such a long time.

It was a very mild May last year, so in the garage it probably got no warmer than 90 degrees during the worst day.
 
If your car was at 100% and unplugged for a month it did not sit at 100% for the entire month. Do you remember the SOC when you checked it at the end of that month? Regardless if sat at 100% a long time. I suspect those in cool climates will have much longer pack capacity life.
 
What is the recommended SOC level for going on a vacation??? We will be away for a week next month and I was thinking of just parking it at about 60%.
 
TRONZ said:
We will be away for a week next month and I was thinking of just parking it at about 60%.
TRONZ, that should be fine. Be sure to unplug the car though, and try to park it somewhere where it doesn't bake in the hot sun all day.
 
Everybody should keep something in mind.. I do not believe the energy loss of the battery is linear. For example, if you loose 10% the first year then you may have lost 10 miles of range. But if you loose another 10% the next year, you would loose another 9 miles, the next year you'd loose maybe 7 or 8. You get the idea. I'm not saying this is exactly how it works, but I wouldn't expect to loose 15 miles of range every year. If you did, the battery would be completely dead in 6 or 7 years... But would be nearly unusable long before that.

Of course, at some point or another, you'll have a cell or two that just flat out die, then the car will quit working.

I've also wondered about how the Leaf measures capacity loss. For example, if you are now at 85% total capacity, then does that just mean the weakest cell in the pack is at 85%, but other cells may be higher?
 
we have bunch of forum members with similar mileage/age, so this seems to be somewhat unusual. Or we will see a string of more posts like this pop up in the near future?
It would be nice to make a list, where we systematically collect data on this. I.e. age of the battery at first bar loss, mileage, average high (summer) storage temperature and charging habits (i.e. 80%/100%).

it seems to me that Nissans battery health test is pretty meaningless, if a case like this would still show up as 5 stars? I dont want to know what the loss rate of a 4 star or less test would be....In any case, I am still hoping this is an outlier, but it leaves an unpleasant feeling. Adding to range anxiety, we now have capacity anxiety as well...seems like EVs are not for those faint of heart :D
 
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