TomT
Well-known member
It is going to cause some people, even in cool climates, to double think acquiring a Leaf... My 4 year lease is looking better and better at this point.
LEAFfan said:
Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs
- Thread starter azdre
- Start date
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Volusiano
Well-known member
Great compilation, Leafkabob! Thank you. When you figure out how you want to pursue this with Nissan together with other Phoenix owners who lost 1 bar, please let us know so we can join forces.leafkabob said:
And Nissan only claims 5 reports out of thousands in Phoenix in that GreenCarReports article when it's easily 10 to 11 already and if not counting upward. And to do it right, we should find out how many people who are registered on this forum from Phoenix and see what the ratio of the reported losses over registered Phoenix owners is. And I'm sure there are registered owners on the forum who may no longer participate or follow the threads after they bought their cars. So the ratio would already be a conservative estimate of the % of Phoenix owners affected by the loss. But for sure it's not only 5 out of the thousands like Nissan wants us to believe.
Is there an easy way to see how many forum members are registered as from Phoenix? Or for a more accurate ratio, we should go to the Phoenix thread in the forum and count the number of Phoenix owners participating there and use this number as the denominator.
There are very few RAV4s that meet that criteria - the fleet studies I've seen show 10-30% degradation over 5 years /100k miles as one would expect. After 10 years most have had their packs replaced/repaired.TonyWilliams said:
LEAFfan
Well-known member
shrink said:
Yours was at the same loss as mine, about 9%, but now I lost another 2%. If you want me to check yours again, just let me know.
myleaf
Well-known member
I am in Phx at 13K miles 14 months, still have 12 bars (knock on wood).
TickTock
Well-known member
Updated my entryleafkabob said:
LEAFfan
Well-known member
You can add one more to the bar losers in the Phoenix area. Someone told me that Skywagon lost a bar about a month ago or so and they said he has already traded it in on some kind of hybrid after Nissan told him the same thing...his loss was "gradual" and "normal". He bought it in Jan. and had over 15K miles on it. The person didn't know which hybrid he bought.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
Pipcecil said:
Have you ever been to AZ in the summer? The cooler temps at night that you are talking about are in Spring, not Summer. In the summer, it stays above 100 for a long time...well into the early morning hours. Now, we can open the windows in our home after MN to 1 AM. In a few weeks, we won't be able to as the outside night temps will be much higher than inside. And last year we had OVER 30 days of 110 or higher. How many 110's or higher did you have last year? August is usually the hottest which had 12 straight days of 110 or higher last year.
We have LEAF drivers that have only charged to 80%, always park in the shade, never top off, never leave it at 100%, and have cool garages, etc., yet have lost a capacity bar. My guess is the many days of 100 and above that we have here affects the pack the most.
TomT
Well-known member
Las Vegas often has a similar condition so I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen the same situation there... Apparently the average of high temperature extended periods must be greater in Phoenix. Or perhaps there simply aren't that many older cars yet in Las Vegas for it to have showed up...
LEAFfan said:
shrink
Well-known member
LEAFfan said:
Wow. I might be joining him in the trade-in while I still have all 12 bars.
I remember when I bought the car that the dealer was topping off while we were doing the papers. He mentioned that on all the cars he "never seen more of 128 miles, regardless of how much" he topped off. 128 miles on the GOM that is. My car was at the dealer for a week after it came. I see some of the cars at 12 months mark, so delivered late spring in AZ. Maybe there is a correlation between these capacity losses and how long the car stayed at the dealer charged at 100%, and being topped off? That will be hard to prove since CW was usually activated after the owners took delivery of the cars. Unless there is a log file in the car.
As a side note: dealers in hot climates should have QC, so their demo cars do not stay at 100% to make the prospective clients fill good.
As a side note: dealers in hot climates should have QC, so their demo cars do not stay at 100% to make the prospective clients fill good.
camasleaf said:
That could be the source of the problem for a lot of people. I can see the cars sitting outside in 110 degree heat and the pack at 100% for days on end.
It would be easy for Nissan to fix this problem. Just have the cars ship with a default to charge to 80% only.
Boomer23
Well-known member
LEAFfan said:
I was wondering about Skywagon. As I recall, he bought his car from Fontana Nissan in CA and drove it home or perhaps trailered it home. So if anyone is thinking that some of this capacity loss might have been caused by the shipping and storage of LEAFs at AZ dealers, Skywagon would be an exception to that. Interesting that he apparently lost a bar as well.
Volusiano
Well-known member
I picked mine up the day after it arrives at the dealership so I know mine wasn't sitting in storage at 100% charge for any long time at the dealership. Still lost a bar...
Nothing to add really except, ....
everyone seems to be thinking capacity loss is a result of a repetitive conditon/repetitive event .....
any chance it's just a one time event?
i.e. one overheat to above x temperature (west sloping concrete parking spot, almost no air circulation, adjacent to a 12 ton A/C compressor exhaust in august for several hours) and a major hit on capacity? (prolly not, but it seems like it should at least be discussed) --- add, if NWS is reporting 115 deg F, hold a thermometer 12" off the pavement in scenario described at 3 pm in the afternoon and guess what it will read ...(hint, much higher than 115)
/p.s. your cars have a big ol temperature gauge on the dash, this is pretty much not in the conversation either .... should Nissan redo some programming here (i.e. temp history, temp history vs charge, etc. ...is the temp gauge collecting data all the time?, does the car call you when it's getting too hot?)
everyone seems to be thinking capacity loss is a result of a repetitive conditon/repetitive event .....
any chance it's just a one time event?
i.e. one overheat to above x temperature (west sloping concrete parking spot, almost no air circulation, adjacent to a 12 ton A/C compressor exhaust in august for several hours) and a major hit on capacity? (prolly not, but it seems like it should at least be discussed) --- add, if NWS is reporting 115 deg F, hold a thermometer 12" off the pavement in scenario described at 3 pm in the afternoon and guess what it will read ...(hint, much higher than 115)
/p.s. your cars have a big ol temperature gauge on the dash, this is pretty much not in the conversation either .... should Nissan redo some programming here (i.e. temp history, temp history vs charge, etc. ...is the temp gauge collecting data all the time?, does the car call you when it's getting too hot?)
As someone who lived in Austin for 9 years, then moved to PHX. Here's a frame of reference. In 2011:
Austin set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 91.6
Dallas set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 93.4
Vegas set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 93.9
Phoenix set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 98.3
That's a constant 4.5 degree higher than pretty much anywhere else. (Only Needles, CA was higher at 98.8)
And as another point, last September 2011, Phoenix didn't drop below 91 degrees, AT ALL. The lowest low temp last September was 91 for the month. So, there's no relief at night. And that's the air. The pavement still remains well over 100 as a constant heat source.
Austin set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 91.6
Dallas set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 93.4
Vegas set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 93.9
Phoenix set record high avg temp in Aug 2011: 98.3
That's a constant 4.5 degree higher than pretty much anywhere else. (Only Needles, CA was higher at 98.8)
And as another point, last September 2011, Phoenix didn't drop below 91 degrees, AT ALL. The lowest low temp last September was 91 for the month. So, there's no relief at night. And that's the air. The pavement still remains well over 100 as a constant heat source.
Stoaty
Well-known member
Sounds like the Leaf was not designed with climate change in mind.jomo25 said:
GRA
Well-known member
There is a considerable difference in albedo between asphalt and concrete, and large areas of exposed asphalt contribute a significant part of the 'heat island' effect in cities. Concrete both reflects more heat in summer, and is less susceptible to damage in winter so it lasts longer. However, it's also more expensive up front (even though it's life-cycle cost is the same or lower), which is why asphalt is used so much.Pipcecil said:
[Added] For more, see
http://www.epa.gov/hiri/resources/pdf/CoolPavesCompendium.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
especially page 5, which compares albedos of concrete and asphalt and shows how they change over time.
EdmondLeaf
Well-known member
I would like to see Dallas and Austin data from cars that are 1 year or older.
myleaf
Well-known member
myleaf said:
I finally built my SOC kit and measured after 100% charge. I got 227. I ran the climate control using CW for 30 mins and it went to 229. This level of degradation maybe consistent for Phx. I normally charge to 80%. What is odd is that I still have all my capacity bars.
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