Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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EdmondLeaf said:
Limit should be set by manufacturer disabling vehicle when battery temp is close to danger zone, because there is no way to control or know what actual battery temp really is.
Click to expand...

If ANY car company did that, they would NEVER sell EVs. We can debate capacity loss all day (and night), but we have to assume that Nissan has designed the car to function (at least) across North America or they wouldn't be selling it as a mass-market vehicle (and I'm not talking about QCing the car into oblivion).
 
EdmondLeaf said:
Limit should be set by manufacturer disabling vehicle when battery temp is close to danger zone, because there is no way to control or know what actual battery temp really is.
Click to expand...

Nissan knows the exact temperature, I believe they start to dial back the power at 10 bars.. probably complete shutdown at 11 bars and a star trek phaser overload alarm starts blaring at 12 bars. If you listen carefully you might hear the cells venting.
 
Volusiano said:
So the bottom line is that with 100% SOC and 1 capacity bar lost, it looks like I was able to squeeze about 69 miles out of the car (55 actual + 14 GOM remaining) with 40mph avg city driving and using AC in Phoenix summer weather. I was hoping for a little bit lower than in the neighborhood of 85 miles total (based on 85% capacity remaining). I know that AC would eat into my hope for 85 miles quite a bit. But I don't know if AC would eat 16 miles of of the 85 or not (rendering the usable range at 69 miles).
Click to expand...
But what was your mi/kWh for the day's driving? Hard to tell accurately where your battery sits without getting down to the low battery warning and knowing mi/kWh.
 
drees said:
Volusiano said:
So the bottom line is that with 100% SOC and 1 capacity bar lost, it looks like I was able to squeeze about 69 miles out of the car (55 actual + 14 GOM remaining) with 40mph avg city driving and using AC in Phoenix summer weather. I was hoping for a little bit lower than in the neighborhood of 85 miles total (based on 85% capacity remaining). I know that AC would eat into my hope for 85 miles quite a bit. But I don't know if AC would eat 16 miles of of the 85 or not (rendering the usable range at 69 miles).
Click to expand...
But what was your mi/kWh for the day's driving? Hard to tell accurately where your battery sits without getting down to the low battery warning and knowing mi/kWh.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I only reset and measured 5.7 miles/kwh on my return trip and didn't do it on my outbound trip. But my guess is that my outbound trip was probably around at least between 4.5-5 miles/kwh, more like 5 miles/kwh. But I know what you mean. Next time I get a chance to do it again, I need to reset the mi/kwh from the beginning and drive all the way to LBW at least so there's no guess work factored in.
 
Another battery loss to report.

Purchased: May 1,2011
Leaf SL

Lost one battery capacity bar today (6/24/2012)
Mileage: 13,105
Last battery check: March 2012 (excellent report)

Charging/Driving habits:

Driven about 40miles a day on weekdays, longer drives on weekends.
Charged to 80% almost always. Charged to 100% once a week or less.
Driven mostly non-highway.
Never DC Fast charged ever

BTW is there a thread that is keeping track of the number of owners reporting this?
 
I'll have had my LEAF for ten months and 13,000 miles in a week or so. All 12 SOH bars are still showing. :)

I commute 65 miles a day, live in the Phoenix heat, and usually charge twice a day. In the winter I charged to 80% at night and 100% in the day, to ensure cell balancing would take place. Now that it's summer I charge to 80% except when I want or feel I might need extra range. However I actually get 92% (11 bars) during the day because I use the climate control timer.

My temp gauge usually shows 6 bars in the morning, but lately I've started to see 7 more often than not. At noon, when I move my car to put it on charge I see 6 bars, since the morning air is much cooler than my garage is, and I try to park in the shade. When I leave at the end of the day I see 7 bars, no surprise.
 
ravi100 said:
Another battery loss to report.

Purchased: May 1,2011
Leaf SL

Lost one battery bar today (6/24/2012)
Mileage: 13,105
Last battery check: March 2012 (excellent report)
Click to expand...
Is the lost bar the one labelled #13 or #14 here?: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8921&start=450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
1. Azdre - Reported bar lost mid April to early May, 2012. 17K miles/14 months ownership. Phoenix
2. bturner - May 12, 2012. 13.6K/12 months. Phoenix
3. turbo2ltr - May 18, 2012. 13K/15 months. Phoenix
4. TickTock - May 20, 2012. 14K/12 months Phoenix
5. Volusiano - May 20, 2012. 16.5K/12 months. Phoenix
6. Mark13 - May 22, 2012. 15.7K/12 months. Phoenix
7. Leafkabob - May 26, 2012. 9.5K/12 months. Phoenix
8. Cyellen - June 7, 2012. 10.2K/ 14 months. Phoenix
9. RickS - June 10, 2012. 11.3K/13 months. Phoenix
10. Pipcecil - June 17, 2012. 20.2K/12 months. Dallas, Texas
11. Phxsmiley - June 17, 2012. 13.7K/10 months. Phoenix
12. AZknauer - June 17, 2012. 9.2K/13.5 months. Phoenix
13. Myleaf - June 19, 2012. 13.3K/14 months. Phoenix
14. johndoe74 - June 5, 2012. 13.5K/ 9 months. Phoenix
15. Matt Ferris - June 20, 2012. 15K/ 12 months. Dallas, Texas
16. Shrink - June 21, 2012. 10.2K/ 10.5 months. Phoenix
17. ravi100 - June 24, 2012. 13.1K/ 13.5 months. Southlake, Texas



Not reported by owner, but by others:
1. Opossum has reported of two cars in Phoenix that have lost 2 bars.
2. Leafkabob reported a street encounter with a Leaf owner who stated he lost a bar after about a year.
3. Skywagon approx. May, 2012. Phoenix
 
ravi100 said:
BTW is there a thread that is keeping track of the number of owners reporting this?
Click to expand...
You can see the updated list on the Nissan Leaf Wiki: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Loss_of_battery_capacity_bar.28s.29_reported_on_mynissanleaf.com_forums" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
In response to a question:

The car is garaged. It is rarely out of the garage for more than 2-3 hrs at a time.
Its primarily used to pick up and drop of our son at school, trips to the grocery store
etc. Our garage door is insulated and today for example its 102F outside
and 85F in the garage.
 
ravi100 said:
In response to a question:

The car is garaged. It is rarely out of the garage for more than 2-3 hrs at a time.
Its primarily used to pick up and drop of our son at school, trips to the grocery store
etc. Our garage door is insulated and today for example its 102F outside
and 85F in the garage.
Click to expand...

As much I want to protect my car from fast battery degradation and be an example that Leaf is the way to go. I really can't find anything more that can be done by ravi to avoid rapid battery degradation. He charged to 80% most of the time, never QC, never exposed car to direct sun during hot weather, kept car in garage in very comfortable temp. Wonder what else can be possibly done by owner to slow down battery degradation?
 
EdmondLeaf said:
As much I want to protect my car from fast battery degradation and be an example that Leaf is the way to go. I really can't find anything more that can be done by ravi to avoid rapid battery degradation.
Click to expand...

I agree, this is very worrysome since 85° F is not a high temperature IMO.
 
ravi100 said:
In response to a question:

The car is garaged. It is rarely out of the garage for more than 2-3 hrs at a time.
Its primarily used to pick up and drop of our son at school, trips to the grocery store
etc. Our garage door is insulated and today for example its 102F outside
and 85F in the garage.
Click to expand...

Might be interesting to get a thermometer and check the "usual suspects".

I.e. -- do you (occasionally) park your car outside in the driveway? Does the driveway catch a lot of afternoon sun (sloped to the west)?

I live in your area and can think of a couple times I have been astounded by the heat. Once was while working on a car on a west sloping driveway with a 3 story building to the east also reflecting heat I presume -- apartment complex with very little air circulation, another time fabricating a gutter on a metal roof. I did not measure the temp on the roof but am quite sure it was well over 130 deg F (I could only work for about 30 minutes at a time and had to get off). I did measure the temp above the driveway (a/c thermometer placed about 12" above concrete). I can't remember the exact temp but I do recall it was well above (+20 deg f?) the reported (weather service) ambient.
 
leafkabob said:
1. Azdre - Reported bar lost mid April to early May, 2012. 17K miles/14 months ownership. Phoenix
2. bturner - May 12, 2012. 13.6K/12 months. Phoenix
3. turbo2ltr - May 18, 2012. 13K/15 months. Phoenix
4. TickTock - May 20, 2012. 14K/12 months Phoenix
5. Volusiano - May 20, 2012. 16.5K/12 months. Phoenix
6. Mark13 - May 22, 2012. 15.7K/12 months. Phoenix
7. Leafkabob - May 26, 2012. 9.5K/12 months. Phoenix
8. Cyellen - June 7, 2012. 10.2K/ 14 months. Phoenix
9. RickS - June 10, 2012. 11.3K/13 months. Phoenix
10. Pipcecil - June 17, 2012. 20.2K/12 months. Dallas, Texas
11. Phxsmiley - June 17, 2012. 13.7K/10 months. Phoenix
12. AZknauer - June 17, 2012. 9.2K/13.5 months. Phoenix
13. Myleaf - June 19, 2012. 13.3K/14 months. Phoenix
14. johndoe74 - June 5, 2012. 13.5K/ 9 months. Phoenix
15. Matt Ferris - June 20, 2012. 15K/ 12 months. Dallas, Texas
16. Shrink - June 21, 2012. 10.2K/ 10.5 months. Phoenix
17. ravi100 - June 24, 2012. 13.1K/ 13.5 months. Southlake, Texas



Not reported by owner, but by others:
1. Opossum has reported of two cars in Phoenix that have lost 2 bars.
2. Leafkabob reported a street encounter with a Leaf owner who stated he lost a bar after about a year.
3. Skywagon approx. May, 2012. Phoenix
Click to expand...

Can we start a list like this people in hot climates that have similar usage stats (i.e. age/mileage) that have NOT lost capacity yet?
Just to get feeling for the x in 20 out of x.
I suspect it is a systematic thing, i.e. a consequence of the heat acting on the battery chemistry, but maybe not (...wishful thinking...)
 
klapauzius said:
Can we start a list like this people in hot climates that have similar usage stats (i.e. age/mileage) that have NOT lost capacity yet?
Just to get feeling for the x in 20 out of x.
I suspect it is a systematic thing, i.e. a consequence of the heat acting on the battery chemistry, but maybe not (...wishful thinking...)
Click to expand...
I think a more useful list would be to record for as many people as possible:

--Gid count at 100% charge
--Length of ownership
--Odometer mileage
--Geographic location

This would include everyone we can get a measurement for, whether they have lost a capacity bar or not.
 
Stoaty said:
klapauzius said:
Can we start a list like this people in hot climates that have similar usage stats (i.e. age/mileage) that have NOT lost capacity yet?
Just to get feeling for the x in 20 out of x.
I suspect it is a systematic thing, i.e. a consequence of the heat acting on the battery chemistry, but maybe not (...wishful thinking...)
Click to expand...
I think a more useful list would be to record for as many people as possible:

--Gid count at 100% charge
--Length of ownership
--Odometer mileage
--Geographic location

This would include everyone we can get a measurement for, whether they have lost a capacity bar or not.
Click to expand...

Once LEAFScan is deployed an automated reporting of a normalized stat like this will be amazing.
 

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