Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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opossum said:
edatoakrun said:
The only way to I can see to reconcile your report of kWh use, 25%-30% below that usually seen on new LEAFs, and the "85% capacity remaining" report you state came from Nissan, is that your charge level was limited to a significantly lower percentage of total battery capacity, presumably by the BMS.
Agreed. I've seen one or two other possible explanations in the last few posts also. It's okay. Maybe Nissan will get a chance to explain to a lawyer why they market it as a 24 kWhr battery pack, if they permanently or seasonally limit people to perhaps 75% of it... but only after a year of ownership. Now wouldn't *that* be an interesting discovery process! :twisted:

Not necessarily. When is the last time you saw 500GB of usable space on your "500GB" hard drive or 12mb useful throughput from your "12mb" broadband line? I think there is precedent for not including necessary overhead in figures like this. However, a more challenging problem for them would be explaining the "100 mile" range figure which assumes no overhead but is like saying your ICE gets 75 MPG... so long as you drive it at 30 MPH with a healthy tailwind and never use the brake. Unreasonable.

A seasonal limitation, should it exist, would also be harder to explain away since they never mentioned it with respect to heat (they did for cold). Anyway, I think 85% is probably the entire pack but it would be very bad form for them to try to claim that this is okay.
 
Gonewild said:
OK your bars are back but can you drive as far as you did a few month ago?

My guess NO they just reset the counter

If you were really paranoid, you might suspect TickTock's special treatment (being invited to have his car checked even before he filed a complaint, IIRC?) might have been followed up with a replacement battery, just to disrupt his ongoing surveillance of actual/available battery capacity...*

*please note the Ellipsis (...)
 
Ed, if that were the case, then those drivers that babied their cars here would still have 12 bars instead of 10 or 11. It's definitely not the cause of major degradation.
 
While everybody is pontificating about temperature adjustments to available capacity, please address why I had 15-18% loss of RANGE / AUTONOMY in 75F temperatures? And a similar numbers of performance reduction from other LEAFs in other "hospitable" climates?

Is the rational that it would just get worse with temperature, and then magically improve as the temperature returns to hospitable? If so, then we can just take one of the many affected Arizona LEAFs, and air condition it overnight, and then wake up early with a full, cooler 100% charge in 75F early morning in Phoenix, and voila, range and capacity bars restored.

Good luck, but we don't have to guess. Another variable that is very easy to test for.
 
OrientExpress said:
What if this whole thing is just a SW bug that is not accurately reporting the capacity of the battery?
Would be nice, but not a chance. We have confirmed the loss through many means: power from the wall, driving range, gids, bars, carwings, etc. All have consistent results.
 
TomT said:
Well, add me to the list. I lost a capacity tick this morning... 22,000 miles, 2 QCs, normally charge to 80 percent, 17 months since delivery.
Sorry to hear that from people that are considered as not extremely hot climate inhabitants
 
EdmondLeaf said:
TomT said:
Well, add me to the list. I lost a capacity tick this morning... 22,000 miles, 2 QCs, normally charge to 80 percent, 17 months since delivery.
Sorry to hear that from people that are considered as not extremely hot


How do you know Tom is not hot? :lol:
 
SierraQ said:
... A seasonal limitation, should it exist, would also be harder to explain away since they never mentioned it with respect to heat (they did for cold) ....

I believe Nissan owner manual says somewhere that the distance travel in one charge depends on many factors. Did they only listed low battery temperature in those factors? Or they just said temperature? I do not have the owners manual handy.
 
I live in Plano TX and just lost my second bar yesterday after 13.5 months of ownership and 16,500 miles. I lost the first bar at about 12 months and 15,000 miles. Reported to Nissan with Case# 913-3854
 
TickTock said:
OrientExpress said:
What if this whole thing is just a SW bug that is not accurately reporting the capacity of the battery?
Would be nice, but not a chance. We have confirmed the loss through many means: power from the wall, driving range, gids, bars, carwings, etc. All have consistent results.

Assuming what ever is responding to your queries in the car is accurately reporting back and does not have a bug.
 
TonyWilliams said:
While everybody is pontificating about temperature adjustments to available capacity, please address why I had 15-18% loss of RANGE / AUTONOMY in 75F temperatures? And a similar numbers of performance reduction from other LEAFs in other "hospitable" climates?

Is the rational that it would just get worse with temperature, and then magically improve as the temperature returns to hospitable? If so, then we can just take one of the many affected Arizona LEAFs, and air condition it overnight, and then wake up early with a full, cooler 100% charge in 75F early morning in Phoenix, and voila, range and capacity bars restored.

Good luck, but we don't have to guess. Another variable that is very easy to test for.

I agree with Tony. I didn't have this kind of range loss in August of last year, when it was equally hot, so why now? Why weren't we seeing these temp adjustments last summer? Something is rotten in the state of Arizona, and it's not just Jan Brewer.
 
TomT
Well, add me to the list. I lost a capacity tick this morning... 22,000 miles, 2 QCs, normally charge to 80 percent, 17 months since delivery.

Sorry about that. Your report is the second of a CA Leaf with a bar loss, I believe.

What sort of ambient temps does your LEAF experience?

What is the month of manufacture?

TonyWilliams"]While everybody is pontificating about temperature adjustments to available capacity, please address why I had 15-18% loss of RANGE / AUTONOMY in 75F temperatures?...


How many times did you run your LEAF past VLBW?

To "turtle"?

Until shut-down?

="TonyWilliams"....And a similar numbers of performance reduction from other LEAFs in other "hospitable" climates...?

I don't doubt some other "moderate climate LEAFs were as "close to" losing a bar as yours was, before you sold it, but I doubt that you actually are claiming your LEAF was typical, for all LEAFs with similar temperature histories, charge cycles, and time from manufacture.
 
fattmerris said:
I live in Plano TX and just lost my second bar yesterday after 13.5 months of ownership and 16,500 miles. I lost the first bar at about 12 months and 15,000 miles. Reported to Nissan with Case# 913-3854
Sorry to hear that, can you share how car was garaged day and night, please.
 
EdmondLeaf said:
TomT said:
Well, add me to the list. I lost a capacity tick this morning... 22,000 miles, 2 QCs, normally charge to 80 percent, 17 months since delivery.
Sorry to hear that from people that are considered as not extremely hot
It's been well over 100F in most of The Valley starting yesterday - I have to think that the heat helps to triggers a reduction in GID counts from what we've seen. Unfortunately for TomT - it's forecasted to be like this through the week. Not as hot as the temps you've seen in OK recently, though!
 
PC to Nissan to report the battery loss , seemed pleasant enough, an they are aware of the issue in warmer climates. No news at this time and I have an official case # 9129683. I Will wait and see. Hard to think I would lose it this fast with the short driving and really have only had mine for just 3-4 months of summer use. I bought it in the winter 10/11. mfr date 5/11, put about 8000 miles myself with 2800 coming from dealer. no QC ever , and did the 100% charge in the winter when it was cooler, 80% in summer, 11,000 total miles I would say is early for loss. I see some after 15,000 that is what I was shooting for.
 
OrientExpress said:
TickTock said:
OrientExpress said:
What if this whole thing is just a SW bug that is not accurately reporting the capacity of the battery?
Would be nice, but not a chance. We have confirmed the loss through many means: power from the wall, driving range, gids, bars, carwings, etc. All have consistent results.

Assuming what ever is responding to your queries in the car is accurately reporting back and does not have a bug.
The car s/w has nothing to do with the accuracy of my wall power meter nor the number of miles I drive. This was the point I was trying to make - we aren't just basing this on one source of information - it has been confirmed through several different means. Some of which have no dependence on the car s/w or interpretation of OBD messages.
 
Well, add me to the list. I lost a capacity tick this morning... 22,000 miles, 2 QCs, normally charge to 80 percent, 17 months since delivery. My Gid meter was stolen so I can't report those numbers...

Sorry about that. Your report is the second of a CA Leaf with a bar loss, I believe.

What sort of ambient temps does your LEAF experience? Fairly temperate, really. I've never seen a 7th temperature bar. Three days of the week I work on the Westside which is not particularly hot and I park outdoors. It is garaged when at home in the NW San Fernando Valley.
.
What is the month of manufacture? It was January 2011 as I recall. It only spent two days at the dealer before pickup.

How many times did you run your LEAF past VLBW? Twice

To "turtle"? Once

Until shut-down? Once
 
TonyWilliams said:
While everybody is pontificating about temperature adjustments to available capacity, please address why I had 15-18% loss of RANGE / AUTONOMY in 75F temperatures? And a similar numbers of performance reduction from other LEAFs in other "hospitable" climates?

Is the rational that it would just get worse with temperature, and then magically improve as the temperature returns to hospitable? If so, then we can just take one of the many affected Arizona LEAFs, and air condition it overnight, and then wake up early with a full, cooler 100% charge in 75F early morning in Phoenix, and voila, range and capacity bars restored.

Good luck, but we don't have to guess. Another variable that is very easy to test for.
I will be curious how your replacement LEAF does on battery capacity. If it degrades the same as the first I would be looking at operating routine. If it lasts much longer I am going to speculate if it is just random luck on how the battery actually performs. Trouble with so much speculation is no control group to make a scientific conclusion.

So far I believe there is a spectrum on how well each battery will perform even in identical conditions.
 
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