sub3marathonman wrote:It is possible that Orient Express is right, since so far there is only anecdotal evidence, not proof. We need a valid representative sample of all Leafs, not just ones with capacity bar losses. So far, I don't know if it is 90% of the Leafs in Phoenix losing capacity, or only 9%. I don't know how that percentage corresponds to the people in Seattle. I don't know if this data has been compiled either, since the focus is ONLY on Leafs with capacity bar losses.
What is more important than mileage, which has shown a low correlation to capacity loss, is the temperature history of each battery, but I don't know if the car tracks that data.
"Maybe it is right" sounds like the way every religion was ever sold to me. Sure, maybe.
To determine if OrientExpress is right or wrong, you would first have to specify which of his many statements is perhaps right.
1. "So far, all of the posts on this subject are speculation, hearsay, innuendo, and opinion."
2. "In reading through all the cases, I really don't see a problem"
3. "I have to believe that if there was an issue, it would have been detected and solved by now"
4. This is just a problem with "several vocal individuals."
5. There is so much confidence, he agreed to swap his battery!!! >>> "sure, come on by, and we will put the cars up on blocks and switch them out."
6. There are as many cars with reduced capacity as there are with ">>excess<< capacity and they are both edge cases".
I sure as heck haven't seen a mention of that excess case(s) !!!!
7. "If there is an actual issue with a customer's battery, then it will be a simple routine warranty repair."
8. This is just "battery FUD that is concentrated in some posts... Kuddos to Nissan for a job well done."
9. Hey, it's only "17 cars out of a population of 25000 is .00068.... or in layman's terms, an edge case."
10. "for the 0.00074074074074 of LEAF owners..... investigate the myriad of options other than complaining to get satisfaction for your transportation needs."
11. Still no problem; just charge more!!! "'the only complaint being that they have to be "filled-up" more often"
12. "Of the fewer than 10 posters that make up the the vast majority of the posts in the 148+ pages of this thread, I'm probably the most rationale one of the bunch."
13. It's a little battery problem because "in the larger scheme of things this is just a fart in the breeze."
14. "8 or so posters that have been the key proponents of this... with some interpretative data that they have been able to glean from some homebrew devices".
Hey, Phil, when will you have my homebrew device ready?
15. And then the insults got more pronounced... "Nothing smells right when you don't have a sense of smell".
And then there's: "
One of the sure signs of dementia is paranoia and being convinced that everything smells bad."
16. All of the previous statements are because "I have a deeper understanding of how failure analysis in the automotive industry works."
17. So, it might be a software problem... "What if this whole thing is just a SW bug that is not accurately reporting the capacity of the battery?"
A bit later, that was upgraded to, "reputable highly-placed sources suggest that a software bug"
. Naturally, no data to support this, or any other claim.
18. Some very specific and detailed data from most detailed person on the forum is juat tossed aside with... "your methodology does not support your conclusions"
from somebody that really hasn't provided ANY data.
19. Another "theory" with no data to support it (nor was any offered), "only those cars that have been driven in a severe and high-mileage mode trigger the condition."
20. The best for last, as this post is an all time classic!!!
"very vocal and seemingly hysterical schizophrenic ADD owners
... they don't represent the vast majority of LEAF owners.... for whatever reason are unable to deal
with the situation and would rather freak out
. Speculation is rampant, and facts are few
... fan the flames of discontent
in a very trollish manner
... for many that is not good enough and demand immediate satisfaction
... Other than assigning wet nurses
to the most vocal and impatient of those that are dissatisfied, it is hard to say what more than can be done."
My observation is that whatever OE suggests is without serious scrutiny of all the data that suggests heat on the cells that have no protection from heat is the problem (unlike Tesla and Volt, both of which have a Temperature Management System, and with no "Phoenix" problem).
Long before OE owned, or reserved a LEAF, an article titled "Is the Nissan LEAF Battery Pack under Engineered?"
suggested that there were serious shortcomings with Nissan's non-temperature protected battery. The comments that were made to this article from 2009 (many that appear to be from "the industry" of people in the know) almost one year before a single LEAF was produced, also suggest Nissan made a serious mistake selling the car in hot environments like Phoenix and Texas. They used those words.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk, also in 2009, well before LEAF was released for sale "ripped" on Nissan's battery technology, and said it's "primitive"
without a temperature management system. PLease read the comments on this article, also. Very well thought predictions that this would not end well for Nissan and (my biggest fear) the greater electric vehicle community
Naturally, the Nissan legal department made clear that the battery capacity is without warrantee, but as we know, consumers have been sold a car in hot places like Phoenix that the manufacturer knew would NOT survive the heat and did NOT tell the consumer of these shortcomings
Anybody who suggests the "non-problem" is anything EXCEPT a heat related issue to a poorly designed product is strictly a denier in my mind; not much different than climate change deniers. If anybody wants the BEST look into the future of Mark Perry, and Nissan's "answer" to this, carefully follow OE's posts.
The reason Seattle, San Francisco, and San Diego LEAF's do so well, in comparison to Phoenix and Texas, is heat.