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TomT
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Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:21 am

The last time I saw 5 bars was about 7 months ago in winter. I did, however, see 7 bars briefly during our heat wave here last week.
drees wrote:My car hasn't seen 5 bars in probably 2 months - and then it was only briefly in the morning a couple times. It's probably been 3 months since the battery has held at 5 bars for any significant time.
Last edited by TomT on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 am

the "tipping" point between 5 and 6 bars is a hair above room temperature. up until mid July, i always saw 5 bars in the morning. if i charged, i was usually done by 3-5 AM, taking off at 8, temps in garage low to upper 60's.

now, the temp in garage is not much different. mid to upper 60's but temperature during the day (in garage) has gone from low to mid 70's to low to mid 80's and now i am at 6 TBs all the time as well but the telling statistic is how much time it takes to cool down from very warm temps.

the biggest issue i see is the gradient scale. they should have been made the same. having 20 something for one bar and then less than 5 for another means you essentially get no warning until its too late. iow, we are right back to idiot lights. by the time they come on its too late.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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chris1howell
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:40 pm
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Leaf Number: 4122
Location: Lancaster, Ca

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:12 am

Last night I joined the "Lost a bar" club. Here are my basics:

Location: Lancaster, Ca
Miles: 15600
Months: 14
2011 LEAF: Red SL #04122
2012 Tesla Model S #01530
EVSE: OpenEVSE, 40A L1/L2 -- http://www.openevse.com
PV System: 28 x 210W -> 5.8 kW DC

OpenEVSE Store: http://store.openevse.com

LEAFfan
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:15 am

neal77 wrote:I'm here in So Cal (inbetween LA and Disneyland) and I have seen 5 tb twice in the morning and the rest of the time has been 6tb. (i have had the car for 1 month now) I'm glad this 2 week heat wave is about over. I hope I will see more 5tb soon. So far I love this car and right now I am kinda sad to think I have to gvie it back in 38 months.
Neal
You don't have to give it back, unlike the EV1. You can buy it for the residual when your lease is up.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

chennu
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 4145
Location: Portland; OR

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:47 am

LEAFfan wrote:
neal77 wrote:I'm here in So Cal (inbetween LA and Disneyland) and I have seen 5 tb twice in the morning and the rest of the time has been 6tb. (i have had the car for 1 month now) I'm glad this 2 week heat wave is about over. I hope I will see more 5tb soon. So far I love this car and right now I am kinda sad to think I have to gvie it back in 38 months.
Neal
You don't have to give it back, unlike the EV1. You can buy it for the residual when your lease is up.
Today (after a 80% charge to 10 bars), the first bar only lasted 1 mile. is this an early indicator that i am going to lose a capacity bar?

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vrwl
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:55 am

chris1howell wrote:Last night I joined the "Lost a bar" club. Here are my basics:

Location: Lancaster, Ca
Miles: 15600
Months: 14
Added to the Wiki.

chris1howell, can you give us your car's manufacture date (located on the metal plate inside the driver's side door on the frame) and let us know the date and case number if you've reported the capacity loss to Nissan. Thanks!
Vicki
2011 Silver SL-Mfg 8/11-Purch 6/12
34000 miles

smkettner
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:21 am

chennu wrote:Today (after a 80% charge to 10 bars), the first bar only lasted 1 mile. is this an early indicator that i am going to lose a capacity bar?
Sure but it could be another year.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

sub3marathonman
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Location: Bartow, FL

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:33 am

TonyWilliams wrote:The next time OrientExpress gives us the next LEAF revelation, just consider these previous revelations about the battery:


1. "So far, all of the posts on this subject are speculation, hearsay, innuendo, and opinion."

2. "In reading through all the cases, I really don't see a problem"

...

17. So, it might be a software problem... "What if this whole thing is just a SW bug that is not accurately reporting the capacity of the battery?" A bit later, that was upgraded to, "reputable highly-placed sources suggest that a software bug". Naturally, no data to support this, or any other claim.

18. Some very specific and detailed data from most detailed person on the forum is just tossed aside with... "your methodology does not support your conclusions". This is from somebody that really hasn't provided ANY data.

19. Another "theory" with no data to support it (nor was any offered), "only those cars that have been driven in a severe and high-mileage mode trigger the condition."
OK, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm not sure if anywhere in the previous 290 pages this has been addressed, but in the Owner's Manual it states, on page 2-9, "When the Li-ion battery becomes warmer, less segments on the Li-ion battery available charge gauge illuminate because the remaining energy is a lower percentage of the Li-ion's battery's capability of storing power.". So the way the manual sounds, people in the high heat areas aren't losing capacity, they are gaining potential capacity? And it also sounds like even with the higher potential capacity, the LEAF only will charge to fill a normal potential capacity battery.

One other question then is are lost capacity bars the best way to be studying the problem?

One other observation about point #18 is that OrientExpress did provide some data, that his car is apparently functioning without any problems. And I keep thinking that LEAFs without any apparent capacity problems need to be included in the data too.

thankyouOB
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:41 am

sub3marathonman wrote:
One other observation about point #18 is that OrientExpress did provide some data, that his car is apparently functioning without any problems. And I keep thinking that LEAFs without any apparent capacity problems need to be included in the data too.

watch out, sub3; someone is going to ask you to exchange your car for a Phoenician Leaf.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
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ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:41 am

sub3marathonman wrote: people in the high heat areas aren't losing capacity, they are gaining potential capacity? And it also sounds like even with the higher potential capacity, the LEAF only will charge to fill a normal potential capacity battery.

One other question then is are lost capacity bars the best way to be studying the problem?
Honestly, I really do not believe your thoughts have merit. The lost capacity bars are explicitly identified as the method to indicate loss of capacity. So, saying otherwise suggests that Nissan made a mistake with their capacity indicator.

The only real way to indicate RANGE is to measure it. Many people have, as I have, many, many times.

The heat issue of GAINING energy is certainly true, if the batteries weren't also degrading during the process.

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