Asking for Lemon Law protection on Monday

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DannyAmes said:
I would start taking pictures or movies of when the navigation locks up and is non responsive and the sudden drop of bars and other strange behavior like pressing to power off the car and nothing happens.

Make the case again to Nissan CS make sure they advise you as to what actions they are taking to remedy this in partnership with the dealer and Nissan corporate.
Get them to provide an estimated time that your concerns will be addressed.

Call CS and find out who the acting CS manager is and tell about the lack of attention this matter is receiving and find out who the dealership owner is of where your updates took place and ask them directly to escalate the issue with Nissan USA.

Get ready to start going down the lemon law road if their response is unsatisfactory.
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Danny,
I've been on that road since April, their lack of response promised on Friday (and another member's post on the update) is what led to my post and decision to file Monday morning (I would have done it over the weekend, but the BBB site doesn't have a Leaf an a Nissan model, so I have to do it over the phone). I would think 4 months+ is enough time.
-red
 
Working with Servers, this really sounds like a firmware glitch that didn't get loaded 100% correctly. There has to be a way they can re-flash the memory and install the newest firmware again. Every computer I have ever worked on allows you to force a firmware, even if it's the same one. Either way, this sounds like Nissan is screwing themselves over in just one more aspect of this car.
 
ztanos said:
Working with Servers, this really sounds like a firmware glitch that didn't get loaded 100% correctly. There has to be a way they can re-flash the memory and install the newest firmware again. Every computer I have ever worked on allows you to force a firmware, even if it's the same one. Either way, this sounds like Nissan is screwing themselves over in just one more aspect of this car.
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Every dealership I've been to and Nissan Corporate says no they can't do this.
 
saintyohann said:
Every dealership I've been to and Nissan Corporate says no they can't do this.
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No way to replace the chips that hold the firmware even if that includes replacing an entire controller board? I find that a bit hard to believe. Sounds like it is too much trouble/too expensive for them.
 
In such an extreme case, they should just swap out all the programmable boxes and be done with it. If there's nothing wrong, they can use them in their own cars. But we're already aware of the level of support the customers seem to be getting. By the way, if you lose your Prius keys, they have to reflash the firmware in the ECU to assign new keys to it. "Impossible" in this case really means somebody omitted a feature from their control software.

Of course, this wouldn't fix a bad sensor.

It would be nice if they could just wave their wand and give red a working LEAF. A properly working one is still among the best cars in the world! If I were in this situation, I would hate to have to give up EV driving.
 
saintyohann said:
I'm pretty sure they know what the issue is because (these are in relation to the biggest issue, the unit going into a safe mode for about 30 minutes):

1) I was immediately given a work-around (the door open thing, which does work occasionally)
2) Being told they had seen this with some cars after doing the update on some Leafs (but it was implied that it only happened the first-time [started?] and the door thing fixed it and it never came back for anyone so customers never saw it, or just saw it once).
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OK, that's interesting. I had the update applied on August 1 and had the safe mode engage on August 20. On the freeway, no less. It went away after a while, could have been 30 minutes, could have been less. I didn't know what to make of it, but this makes much more sense now.
1
 
surfingslovak said:
OK, that's interesting. I had the update applied on August 1 and had the safe mode engage on August 20. On the freeway, no less. It went away after a while, could have been 30 minutes, could have been less. I didn't know what to make of it, but this makes much more sense now.
1
Click to expand...

You had the same thing where the car went into neutral and wouldn't shift into D or R? Did you take it in to a dealership?

- red
 
Can you please specify the update to which you are referring? Is it the voluntary recall known as P1272/P1273/P1274 covered by NTB12-013/NTB12-014/NTB12-015? (I think we were each offered one of the three based on the configuration of our vehicles.)
 
saintyohann said:
You had the same thing where the car went into neutral and wouldn't shift into D or R? Did you take it in to a dealership?
Click to expand...
Not sure if it was the same thing. It said safe mode and visit dealer on the dash, but I was driving, the car did not go out of D, and I didn't stop. Several warning lights were illuminated on the dash. I crawled to a stop a while later (was running low on charge) and the problem went away and all lights cleared when I unplugged an hour later. I didn't take the car to the dealer and drove about 500 miles since then.
 
RegGuheert said:
Can you please specify the update to which you are referring? Is it the voluntary recall known as P1272/P1273/P1274 covered by NTB12-013/NTB12-014/NTB12-015? (I think we were each offered one of the three based on the configuration of our vehicles.)
Click to expand...

I think we will figure out which firmware is to blame quick enough.
 
TonyWilliams said:
I think we will figure out which firmware is to blame quick enough.
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Perhaps, but sometimes these types of problems only occur with a specific set of firmwares loaded. Also, my experience tells me that Nissan revs the firmware for these updates over time, so I suspect those who are getting it today may get different versions than what others of us received in back in March and April. (Of course, that does not explain OP's issue since his was done back then.)

I guess I'm hopeful to avoid helping Nissan debug this particular problem! :shock:
 
surfingslovak said:
OK, that's interesting. I had the update applied on August 1 and had the safe mode engage on August 20. On the freeway, no less. It went away after a while, could have been 30 minutes, could have been less. I didn't know what to make of it, but this makes much more sense now.
Click to expand...
They wanted to do the update when I took my car in for one year battery check mid-June. I refused the update, reasoning that since there was nothing wrong with my car there was no benefit to the update and some risk involved. Perhaps I guessed right. They aren't going to touch my car for this "update" with these reports.
 
Stoaty said:
They wanted to do the update when I took my car in for one year battery check mid-June. I refused the update, reasoning that since there was nothing wrong with my car there was no benefit to the update and some risk involved. Perhaps I guessed right. They aren't going to touch my car for this "update" with these reports.
Click to expand...
It was the February update (voluntary safety recall) in my case as well. I didn't bother with it earlier, but the dealer insisted. The download and installation took a while, had to leave the car overnight. This software didn't fix the CarWings inaccuracy, one of my pet peeves, and had no perceived benefit, at least from what I can tell.
 
That update, for me at least, was actually two. One for the car and one for the Nav. The Nav update went wonky too and they had to re-flash it to fix it. Too bad they can't do the same for the car.
 
surfingslovak said:
Stoaty said:
They wanted to do the update when I took my car in for one year battery check mid-June. I refused the update, reasoning that since there was nothing wrong with my car there was no benefit to the update and some risk involved. Perhaps I guessed right. They aren't going to touch my car for this "update" with these reports.
Click to expand...
It was the February update (voluntary safety recall) in my case as well. I didn't bother with it earlier, but the dealer insisted. The download and installation took a while, had to leave the car overnight. This software didn't fix the CarWings inaccuracy, one of my pet peeves, and had no perceived benefit, at least from what I can tell.
Click to expand...


Can you look on the paperwork and get the specific nomenclature for your update?
 
Too bad about the level of service. I think that directly relates to the dealer. This car is so new that when I had the first update that solved the A/C problem of shutting down the vehicle, a regional tech drove 200 miles to my local Nissan dealer that is not LEAF certified. Spent an hour updating the software and left. The dealership even let me back to the repair shop to watch and talk to the tech. While he was working on the car I overheard one of the mechanics concern that if this was the way cars were going, he was going to be out of a job because he has only had training and experience on mechanical things.

The next update was at the dealership. Now I'm dealing with dealership mechanics, not regional ones. Anyway, they couldn't get the software update installed correctly after we sat for a couple or three hours. They then gave us a loaner car so they could keep the LEAF overnight. We came back the next day and the service rep said they finally got the software properly installed just a short time after we left. The car works fine and we never experienced any of what you have.

I suspect that between the difficulty of getting mechanics that have been trained properly and have built up experience in addition to a perhaps bad connection or bad EEPROM that may be what has happened in your case. I am surprised however that Nissan isn't swarming all over your car and even flying in techs from Japan. They used to do that.
 
saintyohann said:
I have no idea what they called it, it was the one that came out in Feb 2012.
Click to expand...
surfingslovak said:
It was the February update (voluntary safety recall) in my case as well. I didn't bother with it earlier, but the dealer insisted.
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O.K. The February update is the one I specified.
surfingslovak said:
This software didn't fix the CarWings inaccuracy, one of my pet peeves, and had no perceived benefit, at least from what I can tell.
Click to expand...
Yep, the February update does not fix the CarWings problem. That is only fixed by NTB11-041a. I FINALLY got permission from Nissan for my dealer to apply that to our car. Waiting on the SD card with the firmware to arrive.

Interestingly, when I recently tried to get my dealer to apply NTB-041a they tried to reapply the February update and it *attempted* to update further but my car apparently did not accept the update. Perhaps it is good that it failed. I was furious enough that they didn't fix my CarWings problem, but I cannot imagine how mad I would have been if they had messed up the car! I can give more details on the failed update if desired, but I don't think it applies to OP's case.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Can you look on the paperwork and get the specific nomenclature for your update?
Click to expand...
Sure, the invoice contains this line item:

Code: 
B P1274  LEAF VCM TCU REPRO  NTB12-015  PERFORM FACTORY RECALL  29034  W40  14214  REPROGRAMMED VCM & TCU AS PER CAMPAIGN
 

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