Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

dsh said:

We may as well as start saving towards a new $13,000.00 battery pack.

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IMO (and what'd I'd look to do in your situation) - instead of doing that I'd put the money towards switching to a leased car as soon as possible. A 2-year lease is probably best for AZ owners - at this point we still don't know how fast the battery will continue to degrade in the heat - so I'd suggest a 2-year lease unless you very rarely need to drive more than 50 miles / charge.

Let's say that you need a new pack every 3 years because of rapid capacity loss and at that point you need a new battery to keep the car usable for you. Also say that you can lease for $300/mo out the door (you can do significantly better than that with a 2-year lease these days).

The 3-year lease cost of $10,800 is less than the cost of a new battery pack - and you get a brand new car every 3-years, too.

You save money - you get a fresh battery/car every 3-years and the latest technology - and Nissan bears all the risk.

It's a win-win for the customer and IMO a no-brainer for anyone who lives in a hot climate.

The other alternative - lease a Volt - great lease deals on that car and it has a very well designed TMS for it's battery which appears to be holding up to AZ heat after 1+ year with no issues.

jspearman said:

spooka said:

Nissan has clearly stated that as long as you are not parking your car in AMBIENT temperatures above 120 degrees F, there will be no effect by heat on the battery pack. This was stated to me by the Leaf specialist that sold me my Leaf at the dealership ("the batteries are insulated, and heat, even here in the valley, will not effect the life of the battery since the insulation will only allow the battery pack to heat at the most, a few degrees above the current temperature"). A co-worker told me a few days ago that he was looking at Leafs and was told by the salesperson that heat does not effect the battery system here in Phoenix. I'd love to see an undercover reporter test this statement by visiting several dealers in the valley and asking a salesperson specifically about this issue.

As buyers, we were told (and are still being told) by Nissan that these batteries would be OK in Phoenix. I would guess that most owners asked this type of question before purchase just like I did. Please see the following video (especially the last minute) where Nissan discusses what we were all told about the battery system and the heat. I have not seen any days over 120 degrees in Phoenix, so I would conclude that either heat is not the issue (based on statements from Nissan) and there is another defect or that heat is the issue and there is a defect in the battery pack that Nissan did not expect to see. Either way, there is a defect, since Nissan considers temperatures at 110 degress to be "normal" and temperatures in the 130 to 140 degree range to be an issue.

http://youtu.be/DShtvd5jJHQ

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It's a shame that they continue to sell the car here until they can figure out what's happening. I wrote our salesperson at Avondale Nissan, Trudy Varin, and told her about the problems and sent her a link to this thread, and she's the Leaf specialist there. I hope she is at least giving people a head's up about potential problems and encouraging people to lease the car, at the very least. She had been told that only five or six cars were affected, but I educated her on the number we have here at MNL.

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Trudy was the person I was quoting here. I'd be interested in knowing if you discussed this issue with her before your purchase and what her response was if you did. I am guessing that she is using the official info that she is getting from Nissan to respond to customer concerns and would treat most of the info here as "hearsay", which she is not likely to pass along to customers. I can't quote her word for word but she did state that the insulation around the batteries was enough to prevent the issues we are seeing now and why not? That was the official line from Nissan.

Suggestions on actions to take.

"Charge Ins" - Let's get as many of us in front of a different Nissan dealership on a Saturday as we can for a few hours once or twice a month with our Leafs all in a line at their charging station to stop by for a charge. This would give us the opportunity to educate the public and Nissan customers about our issue and how we are being treated by Nissan as owners. Invite the media to our charging event. Present our issue to the sales manager or Leaf specialist that is working. Be polite at all times.

DECLINE to give any more info on your car when the ACCEPT DECLINE option appears when you power up your Leaf until Nissan provides more info on this issue as it seems they will use this info against us through their silence thus far.

Place a sign on the back on your Leaf that alerts the public to our issue and point them to this website. Any good ideas for a nice short to the point sign? Anyone own a print shop or have a friend that can help?

Notify the legal/consumer/government agencies of your choice.

Add more relevant ideas to this post.

We are 400 strong in Phoenix. It may be time for us to be heard from. Thoughts please.

TonyWilliams said:

I would sell the car before I would reward Nissan with $13,000 of my money to fix their mistake from before the first car was built. Then I'd buy a different EV with TMS, or plug-in like a Volt (also with TMS). In Phoenix, I'd make sure it was plugged in anytime it was parked in the heat, or it had a really full battery to run the TMS.

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I have a Volt next to my Leaf in the garage, and my other Volt in the driveway. All three connected to a chargers. It is 101 outside.

The Volts are humming away keeping their batteries cool. I shed a tear for the Leaf's battery when I hear them.

spooka said:

Place a sign on the back on your Leaf that alerts the public to our issue and point them to this website. Any good ideas for a nice short to the point sign? Anyone own a print shop or have a friend that can help?.

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I like the sign idea...

RANGE WHEN PURCHASED: 74 miles
RANGE 18 MONTHS LATER: 55 miles
HEAT KILLS
MYNISSANLEAF.COM

Fill in your own numbers...

spooka said:

We are 400 strong in Phoenix. It may be time for us to be heard from. Thoughts please.

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Well, as I said previous, I would first "officially" notify the dealerships, in writing, return receipt, of the problems experienced. Everybody can do that; easy.

All the other suggestions might make you feel good, but aren't going to move a multi-billion dollar corporation one inch. I would not spread out to all the dealerships at once to picket, but instead pick a date and time for as many affected LEAF's as you can gather at ONE dealership. Bring the media with you, so you can get the word out. Bring whatever lawyer who can be interviewed by the media.

Get whatever permits that are required to do this!!! Don't break the law. Invite the dealer and/or Nissan to send a rep to "counter" your argument (of course, they'll just spew the prepackaged party line, so it's easy to know what they'll say).

Get your congress critters involved. Or any other big name that you can invite to the event. That is what will draw the media. Also, the hate spewing Teabaggers are probably to your benefit. They can talk about how much they hate Obama, and how he gave Nissan $1.9 billion to build green cars, and here's the result of those bad cars. Dumb stuff, to be sure, but effective to get the media coverage in a conservative state.

Having said all that, consider hiring a professional PR firm. Just lashing out will barely make you feel better, and wont get anything accomplished. If you don't have media, you WASTED YOUR TIME!!!!!

Is there any kind of organization amongst the LEAF owners there?

spooka said:

Trudy was the person I was quoting here. I'd be interested in knowing if you discussed this issue with her before your purchase and what her response was if you did. I am guessing that she is using the official info that she is getting from Nissan to respond to customer concerns and would treat most of the info here as "hearsay", which she is not likely to pass along to customers. I can't quote her word for word but she did state that the insulation around the batteries was enough to prevent the issues we are seeing now and why not? That was the official line from Nissan.

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I bought the car last August, before any of us knew about the degradation issues. I wrote Trudy at the beginning of July and told her to check out this site and that we had lost a bar. I wrote her again and let her know the situation had gotten much worse and that the figure she had been given was completely inaccurate. Scott Yarosh's car came from Avondale, so she personally knows two multi-bar losers, and probably many more.

TonyWilliams said:

spooka said:

We are 400 strong in Phoenix. It may be time for us to be heard from. Thoughts please.

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Also, the hate spewing Teabaggers are probably to your benefit. They can talk about how much they hate Obama, and how he gave Nissan $1.9 billion to build green cars, and here's the result of those bad cars. Dumb stuff, to be sure, but effective to get the media coverage in a conservative state.

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As a Teaparty member myself, I only see one person spewing hate at the moment. Personally, don't see much point in this type of comment since we all have a real problem to solve here... I own a Leaf because of the way women are treated as property/cattle in these oil producing nations of the middle east as well as the fact that money from gasoline purchases provides funding for organizations that wish to kill Americans. Others purchase these vehicles to address environmental concerns. All great reasons for both sides of the aisle to support this technology. A win/win as I see it. I hope you would agree.

Yes, we would need to visit the same dealership at the same time. We have all been invited to charge our cars at these dealerships so if we all happen to show up for a charge at the same time, we'd all have to wait in line for several hours I'd think, to get through the process. I for one, would be glad to go and sit in the dealership and talk openly with other Leaf owners about the issues we are having while my car is charging.

Call Nissan Corporate at 615-725-1000 and ask for Mark Perry and complain. Email Mark Perry at [email protected] and complain. Call Peter Haynes-Nissan Executive Relations Representative at 615-725-7447 and complain.


Good info. I will send my Emails. and start calling this week. They need to hear from the many and it seem this list is growing all the time.

Dear All Leaf owner in US,

I'm Leaf owner in Hong Kong, and my Leaf battery capacity has been drop down to 11 bar yesterday. After full charge the battery in charging station(still have 12 bar), then run around 50km/31miles and stop, charge 2.5 hour in 13A socket (still have 12 bar). Run 13km/8 miles and stop again (around 15min) without charging. When start the car again, found capacity loss, already report to Nissan HK, they got the car data and send back to Japan Nissan, only I can do is waiting their reply...............Nissan HK told me I'm the second Leaf in HK report battery problem, not sure they will replace the battery or let us survive ourself. Even they change the whole battery , how about it happen again soon, I don't think they have solution on this matter. As I need to use car every day, I worry the battery not tough as Nissan mention, I consider change back to gasoline car when the Leaf still have some value. Than wait Telsa come.

Here is some data for my car:
- every day run around 100km/62.5miles
- will charge the car 2 times a day, in Office (underground car park) & at Home (outdoor night time)
- The car will expose under the sun on week end
- have the car 8 months & run near 24000km / 15000 miles (capacity drop on 23xxx Km)
- speed always keep 70-80 Km
- Temperature for the battery always 6 bar, according to the user manual 6 bar is 23.5-35 Degrees C (below 98F), which is match outside temperature in HK on summer time.


Some information from charging provider in HK, they told me other Leaf also have capacity drop before run 25000km, and all owned by company, means staff can use and they will not care the condition of the car. I think temperature may one of the reason cost the problem, but no matter you care or not care the car (drive fast create more heat to the battery), it still happen on some Leaf. :|

gosashi, you always charge to 100%?

Sorry to hear about your loss.

spooka said:

TonyWilliams said:

spooka said:

We are 400 strong in Phoenix. It may be time for us to be heard from. Thoughts please.

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Also, the hate spewing Teabaggers are probably to your benefit. They can talk about how much they hate Obama, and how he gave Nissan $1.9 billion to build green cars, and here's the result of those bad cars. Dumb stuff, to be sure, but effective to get the media coverage in a conservative state.

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As a Teaparty member myself, I only see one person spewing hate at the moment.... A win/win as I see it. I hope you would agree.

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You're absolutely right, in that I should not have included political stuff here. Since I have Tea Party family members who think all EV's are from the devil Obama, it seemed easy to say. Again, back to the directing all the "hate" for a positive outcome; that Nissan actively identifies the problem with the battery, and doesn't stay in one speed, blaming the consumer for their product's shortcomings.

gosashi said:

I worry the battery not tough as Nissan mention, I consider change back to gasoline car when the Leaf still have some value. Than wait Telsa come.... they told me other Leaf also have capacity drop before run 25000km

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Sorry to hear, but not surprising in the heat there (although not nearly as hot as Phoenix and Texas). I don't think you'll like a gasoline car after the LEAF !!! I know I wouldn't.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Stoaty said:

brettcgb said:

I lost my first battery capacity bar a week ago (about August 26, 2012). I noticed it after one of my infrequent 100% charges.
SOC bargraph now shows higher than battery capacity bargraph after 100% charge. Hmmm....

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Sorry to hear about your bar loss. To complete your Wiki entry, we just need:
--case number from Nissan
--date of report to Nissan
--date of manufacture (drivers door frame)

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VIN updated - to '015143

gosashi said:

Dear All Leaf owner in US,

I'm Leaf owner in Hong Kong, and my Leaf battery capacity has been drop down to 11 bar yesterday.

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Sorry to hear about your capacity bar loss. Yours is the first report from outside the U.S. Added to Wiki:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Losses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are now a total of 80 cases reported.

gosashi said:

Dear All Leaf owner in US, I'm Leaf owner in Hong Kong, and my Leaf battery capacity has been drop down to 11 bar yesterday.

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Sorry to hear about your battery capacity lost. 6 temperature bars is not as bad. I believe the cause of your battery problem may be perhaps due to the high humidity. I grew up in Hong Kong and I know how humid Hong Kong is. The terminals may have some rusts built up. Would you be able to convince the Hong Kong Nissan service personnel to "check and clean"?

waidy said:

gosashi said:

Dear All Leaf owner in US, I'm Leaf owner in Hong Kong, and my Leaf battery capacity has been drop down to 11 bar yesterday.

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Sorry to hear about your battery capacity lost. 6 temperature bars is not as bad. I believe the cause of your battery problem may be perhaps due to the high humidity. I grew up in Hong Kong and I know how humid Hong Kong is. The terminals may have some rusts built up. Would you be able to convince the Hong Kong Nissan service personnel to "check and clean"?

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I think you may have missed the fact that he's running close to a 2000 mile/month clip, which will result in about 2 year's worth of driving (and more importantly battery pack cycling--he charges A LOT) in a year's time. I would hope to be (only) down one bar by the time I hit 20k miles or so. There are so many variables involved

Ah, yes, Bye bye penis envy. Hello capacity envy.

Herm said:

gosashi, you always charge to 100%?

Sorry to hear about your loss.

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Timer always set to 80%, will charge 100% when week end or the location I need to go not provide electric socket.

waidy said:

gosashi said:

Dear All Leaf owner in US, I'm Leaf owner in Hong Kong, and my Leaf battery capacity has been drop down to 11 bar yesterday.

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your battery capacity lost. 6 temperature bars is not as bad. I believe the cause of your battery problem may be perhaps due to the high humidity. I grew up in Hong Kong and I know how humid Hong Kong is. The terminals may have some rusts built up. Would you be able to convince the Hong Kong Nissan service personnel to "check and clean"?

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I have report to Hong Kong Nissan, they told me need to wait Japan Nissan reply, they don't want to check anything before get the reply for Japan.