Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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planet4ever said:
pchilds said:
20% at 5 years is gradual, 20% at 4 months, 5% a month, is not. No traction battery that is at end of life at 2 years has gradual loss.
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You are obviously falling into the English language trap that I am warning about. "Gradual" has nothing to do with how fast or slow something happens. It has to do with whether something happens all-at-once or a little bit at a time. Losing 0.2% of your battery capacity is a little bit. But if you lose 0.2% each day you drive the car, you will lose more than 5% in a month, and it would definitely be a gradual loss.

Ray
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Be your logic 5% a day would be gradual loss.
 
mark1313 said:
I wish I had my tape recorder going when they sold me my extended warranty..I specificly ask if it covered the batteries and she said yes..I would not of bought the warranty if it had not coverd the batteries..
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It would have been in writing in the extended warranty if it covered the battery. Did you read the extended warranty?
 
palmermd said:
Volusiano said:
Herm said:
The only thing you can do is a complete cycle and recharge, measuring how much energy you put in.. yes this may require 20 hours of charging on 120V and a kill-a-watt meter... or just wait for the software update.
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You still have to use the mile/kwh display from the LEAF to make the calculation.
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Not true, the L1 charger which has been documented to charge at 78.3% efficient ( http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8583 ) will give you all the information you need. If you put in 20kw then the pack received 15.6kw. So for a new pack you should see 21kw into pack which should pull 26.8kW from the wall.
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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=3370" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have records of 240v 16a charge time to "80%" that I need to look at.

Phil (see link) reports Total Charge Efficiency: 90.9%.

Does anyone have observations of charge efficiency up to an "80%" charge level that differ significantly from Phil's?

If so, what was your methodology?

IIRC, many have reported efficiency in the 85%-90% range, but these often included the lower efficiency charge, from the "80% to "100%" charge level.

Ingineer

...These measurements are all using our Rev2 Upgraded EVSE:

120v: (112.6v recorded at EVSE input)
Standby Power: 1.7w
Charge Power in: 1.436kW
Power to Leaf Battery: 1.125kW
Total Power Lost: 311w
Total Charge Efficiency: 78.3%

240v: (239.8v recorded at EVSE input)
Standby Power: 3.4w
Charge Power in: 3.756kW
Power to Leaf Battery: 3.414kW
Total Power Lost: 342w
Total Charge Efficiency: 90.9%

All these measurements were with the Leaf pack at around 62 degrees F and ~65% SoC. Readings were allowed to stabilize before recording. The power to the Leaf battery was calculated by recording amperage at the cell interconnect level using a high-accuracy kelvin-connected current shunt, so the losses are a sum of all EVSE/Charger/Leaf systems. Charger input power was similarly recorded using lab-grade calibrated true RMS equipment, not a Kill-A-Watt.

These efficiency calculations do not take into account the coulombic loss in the Leaf's battery, and other Leaf systems during discharge, so this is only charging efficiency up to the battery pack itself but not including the pack, of which also has notable loss...
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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
All we need to convince is a jury , of your peers and most will not be happy that large corporations advertise the longevity and have commercials stating how long they expect it to last and then it fails. Simple , even If I didnt own a leaf, I would say they gave the perception repeatedly vocally, it should last 5 yr to 10 years. This would be a fail in 1 year -2 years the battery is toast. I would have no reservations finding them guilty on all accounts. Classic greedy Corporations cheating the American public every chance it gets. Go back over Automotive cases they loose most if not all the time. which is why lawyers take these cases pro bono. Even taking the GOV. money to fund the failing products. I will be joining in with suit if Nissan fails to stand behind their product. Last Nissan I will own.
 
tokenride said:
Does anyone have any links to official Nissan videos or documents like the one above. I'm trying to gather all the ammo I can for the battle.
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Azdre and I captured these two videos, in case Nissan decides to pull them down some day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShtvd5jJHQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/REPORTS/2011/08/110803.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
surfingslovak said:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DEuGU0mGWc[/youtube]
1
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Thanks, surfingslovak!

Transcription of this video in case it decides to disappear at some point in the future:

URL: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DEuGU0mGWc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Title: Nissan LEAF Tour Q&A: Battery Replacement
Uploaded by: nissanusa
Upload date: January 27, 2012
Summary paragraph:
Nissan LEAF Tour Q&A: Battery Replacement YouTube Video uploaded by nissanusa on January 27 said:
Nissan LEAF Tour Expert Kate answers a question from our Facebook Page about when the Nissan LEAFs battery will need to be replaced. For more answers to Nissan LEAF questions, visit http://www.facebook.com/NissanLEAF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Video transcription:
Nissan LEAF Tour Q&A: Battery Replacement YouTube Video uploaded by nissanusa on January 27 said:
(Fade from black to blue background showing the following words:)
"Nissan LEAF
drive electric tour"
(Words fade out and the following words fade in:)
"When will the LEAF
battery need to be replaced?
- Juan E."
(Switch to a scene of a blonde lady with a Nissan LEAF baseball cap standing outside with a blue Nissan LEAF seen out-of-focus in the background. She is speaking and says the following:)
"The battery pack will NOT have to be replaced after a couple years. In fact, the battery pack's supposed to last AT LEAST 10 years or 100,000 miles. Could be MUCH longer depending on how much you drive."
(Switch back to blue background showing the following words:)
"Join the conversation at
Facebook.com/NissanLEAF"
(Fade to black)
Click to expand...
 
Nissan already pulled one of those off of their Facebook page recently. Also, I scoured the LEaF page and they have removed all references of battery life expectations.
 
azdre said:
Nissan already pulled one of those off of their Facebook page recently. Also, I scoured the LEAF page and they have removed all references of battery life expectations.
Click to expand...
Looks like they are circling the wagons.
 
And after reading 10 official definitions of the word gradual from well-respected ( and not so respected dictionaries) there is no way in hell that 0-10 percent in one year followed by 20-30% in 3 months can be gradual.
 
opossum said:
Help! Give me more people to complain to! The more I can annoy Nissan and spread the word, the better! :)
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The biggest problem I see here is that the wiki page lists over 80 people with battery problems and only about half of those people have reported the problem to Nissan to get a case number.

If everyone that has a problem with the battery would report it to Nissan it would be a lot harder to ignore the problem.
 
KJD said:
The biggest problem I see here is that the wiki page lists over 80 people with battery problems and only about half of those people have reported the problem to Nissan to get a case number.
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In the strictest sense, not true. Only half have reported to Nissan to our knowledge. Some are off forum reports and we don't know what they did. We also have a lot of drive-by reports on the forum, where someone reports, then doesn't follow up so we have no idea if they got a case number from Nissan. Frustrating, but I guess that is the nature of the beast.
 
Nissan wants to do a "new" test on our car this afternoon. I asked the service manager if he could provide any information on what this new test would be or any information on what has been done to our car to this point. We have not received any information on what was done to our car in Casa Grande, nor do we know anything about any of the other trips to the dealerships, except some very basic battery test statements from the trips to the dealership. If the service manager responds back that he cannot provide any information, what should we do? My inclination is to not take the car in, as they have not provided us anything to this point. Everything has been for Nissan's benefit, not our benefit.
 
opossum said:
Nissan wants to do a "new" test on our car this afternoon. I asked the service manager if he could provide any information on what this new test would be or any information on what has been done to our car to this point. We have not received any information on what was done to our car in Casa Grande, nor do we know anything about any of the other trips to the dealerships, except some very basic battery test statements from the trips to the dealership. If the service manager responds back that he cannot provide any information, what should we do? My inclination is to not take the car in, as they have not provided us anything to this point. Everything has been for Nissan's benefit, not our benefit.
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Take the car in to the dealer. If they fix the problem we all benefit, you most of all.

You have nothing to loose and everything to gain.
 
KJD said:
Take the car in to the dealer. If they fix the problem we all benefit, you most of all.

You have nothing to loose and everything to gain.
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Agreed. If Nissan learns something from your car, they benefit and perhaps down the road the rest of us will benefit. If anything, I think this would give you more ammunition in that you followed up with Nissan, let them test your car twice, etc. It shows you went the "extra mile" to cooperate with them in determining the problem and (possible but doubtful) a satisfactory solution.
 
Take it in. The more times you take it in and it doesn't get fixed, the more legal ammunition you probably have. If they do perform voodoo on your car and your range comes back, then great.
 
Stoaty said:
KJD said:
Take the car in to the dealer. If they fix the problem we all benefit, you most of all.

You have nothing to loose and everything to gain.
Click to expand...
Agreed. If Nissan learns something from your car, they benefit and perhaps down the road the rest of us will benefit. If anything, I think this would give you more ammunition in that you followed up with Nissan, let them test your car twice, etc. It shows you went the "extra mile" to cooperate with them in determining the problem and (possible but doubtful) a satisfactory solution.
Click to expand...

+1, however my initial reaction was to tell them to disclose or go to hell. The New Jersey in me always comes out in my initial reactions...
 
Okay, it sounds like a case of semantics. I had the impression that they would be doing a new type of test, but the service manager just told me they would just be doing a new instance of the same old battery test as documentation of the new capacity loss. So YET AGAIN we will take time away from work to bend over and give Nissan what it wants. I've lost count, but I think this is roughly trip #10 to a service department for an electrical or capacity issue...
 

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