Open Letter from Nissan, September 22, 2012

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

mwalsh

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
9,781
Location
Garden Grove, CA
This was just received from Nissan. I will post a .pdf copy of the file I received once I can get it converted.

OPEN LETTER TO THE LEAF COMMUNITY
From Carla Bailo


carla_bailo.jpg


Happy eve of National Plug In Day. We’re excited that Nissan LEAF owners are gathering nationally tomorrow to celebrate zero-emission motoring, and appreciate that so many of you are sharing your enthusiasm with others. You are truly our best ambassadors to the next generation of passionate EV drivers.

We also want to update you, the LEAF community, on our findings regarding battery capacity loss concerns expressed by a number of owners in the Phoenix market. Nissan takes customer concerns seriously, and we know many of you have been interested to hear what we’ve learned in our thorough investigation, and what it all means.

We identified seven LEAF owners in the Phoenix area who had reported concerns with their vehicles. With their agreement we brought the cars to Nissan’s Arizona test facility, where we removed the batteries for evaluation, measured capacity, and conducted voltage testing on individual battery cells. These tests were diagnostic only; no modifications were performed to the battery packs themselves.

After returning cars to their owners, we analyzed the results of our tests, with specific emphasis on the rate of actual capacity loss for each vehicle. Our goals were simple: to determine 1) if there were any defects in materials or workmanship in the individual batteries or vehicle systems; 2) if the batteries were performing to specification; and 3)their performance relative to the global LEAF population.

This week, we will meet with these LEAF owners to share our findings on their individual vehicles. In the mean time, we can report the following overall findings:

• The Nissan LEAFs inspected in Arizona are operating to specification and their battery capacity loss over time is consistent with their usage and operating environment. No battery defects were found.
• A small number of Nissan LEAF owners in Arizona are experiencing a greater than average battery capacity loss due to their unique usage cycle, which includes operating mileages that are higher than average in a high-temperature environment over a short period of time.

While we understand that some LEAF owners are concerned about battery capacity loss, we want all owners to remember that all battery-electric vehicles – and all lithium-ion batteries – demonstrate capacity loss over time. So while your LEAF may have been able to travel a certain distance or more on a charge when new, its range will decrease as the battery ages, miles accumulate and gradual capacity loss occurs. This loss in capacity will occur most rapidly in the early part of your battery’s life, but the rate should decrease over time. Information on gradual battery capacity loss is available in the paperwork that was delivered with your vehicle, in the owner’s manual and on the many vehicle resources available at http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/.

It is also important to put the scope of these concerns in perspective. Globally, there are more than 38,000 Nissan LEAFs on the road that have travelled more than 100 million zero-emission miles, and we expect these vehicles, in normal operating conditions, to retain 80 percent of battery capacity after five years. As each user’s operating characteristics are unique and many factors impact battery capacity, we can expect some vehicles to have greater than 80 percent capacity at five years, and some vehicles to have less. In Arizona, we have approximately 450 LEAFs on the road. Based on actual vehicle data, we project the average vehicle in that market to have battery capacity of 76 percent after five years – or a few percentage points lower than the global estimate. Some vehicles in Arizona will be above this average, and some below. Factors that may account for this differential include extreme heat, high speed, high annual mileage and charging method and frequency of the Nissan LEAFs in the Phoenix market.

We at Nissan stand by our product, and we also stand by our customers. Recently, we’ve asked Chelsea Sexton, a passionate advanced technology advocate, to convene an independent global advisory board. Members would be selected by Chelsea, not Nissan, and they would recommend their own mandate, but our hope is that they would hold up a mirror to us and help us to be more open and approachable in our communication and to advise us on our strategy. We should have more information on the advisory board in a few weeks.

As we work with individual owners to ensure their satisfaction, we are appreciative of your continued support of both the Nissan LEAF and the electric vehicle movement, overall. We look forward to continuing our dialogue here in the MyNissanLEAF forum and within the Nissan LEAF community.

Best Regards,
Carla Bailo
Senior Vice President, Research & Development – Nissan Americas
 
It's sort of stating the obvious to say that this has become as much a communications issue as a technical one, but I've encouraged Nissan to jump into this thread (and forum) directly so that an actual conversation can be had...
 
Certainly we need more specifics on the technical side. What happened to the people who got their cars back with more capacity bars showing, is it a gauge issue, coupled with "normal" capacity loss, exaggerating the situation? Is more capacity left in the pack than the instrumentation is suggesting? Is this going to be an issue with all LEAF's eventually? How will a new battery pack address these issues in future LEAF's?
 
My worry: I'm in a mild weather area (S.F. Bay Area) - which might be the optimal "normal" operating conditions for an EV like the LEAF. I nearly always charge to only 80%, and I've experienced nearly a 10% loss in actual measured range in 15 months... and I'm not even high mileage: barely over 10K miles. This is faster loss than I expected in my climate. For now, it isn't impacting me... but I hope the loss does slow down, because I may be unable to comfortably complete common trips I do if the loss doubles in another year.

--Ron
 
evchels said:
It's sort of stating the obvious to say that this has become as much a communications issue as a technical one, but I've encouraged Nissan to jump into this thread (and forum) directly so that an actual conversation can be had...
Agreed, thank you for talking to Nissan about this issue, Chelsea!
 
My LEAF has lost range (apparently due to capacity loss) during
my ownership in a moderate southern California climate, and
a very modest 9000 miles over 18 months.

1st 6 months approximately 0% loss
2nd 6 months, about 2%
3rd 6 months, about 8% more loss, for 10% total

If I continue to lose another 8% by the end of the 2nd year,
that will be 18% in two years. I will have to wait to see what
happens.

However, losing 16% per year is not what Nissan lead me to
believe that the LEAF would deliver. I will know more in 6 months.
 
evchels said:
It's sort of stating the obvious to say that this has become as much a communications issue as a technical one, but I've encouraged Nissan to jump into this thread (and forum) directly so that an actual conversation can be had...

Thanks for stepping up to this challenge. I hope it doesn't backfire on you! For all of us that want this car to succeed, I wish you the best.

Tony
 
Ouch, I was hoping for a better response.

mwalsh said:
We at Nissan stand by our product, and we also stand by our customers.

If they truly believe this they would have a better battery warranty. I LOVE my Leaf, but I can't recommend them anymore because of this issue.
 
gsleaf said:
Ouch, I was hoping for a better response.

mwalsh said:
We at Nissan stand by our product, and we also stand by our customers.

If they truly believe this they would have a better battery warranty. I LOVE my Leaf, but I can't recommend them anymore because of this issue.
Ditto on the first point. Hmmm, it'll be interesting to see what accommodation Nissan makes (if any) to the AZ, TX and other hot climate Leaf owners, regardless of how many capacity bars they've lost. It'll be interesting to see if Nissan makes them sign some sort of NDA as to the specifics of any accommodation/settlement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see more clueless hot climate area owners (who aren't here on MNL and aren't monitoring the situation) who've lost capacity bars, haven't reported it anywhere but as they lose more (say next year and beyond) finally realize they have a problem when they do notice significant range loss.

As for the your latter point, I'm surprised you'd say that considering you live in an ideal climate for li-ion battery life.

Perhaps this will end up causing most people (who know better) to lease Leafs instead of buying them. This might be what Nissan wanted all along. After all, they originally wanted to have the battery packs be lease only, at least from all their public statements they made for a long time.
 
I certainly do hope the batteries slow down their loss. I just noticed I lost my first bar this weekend after 16 months and 16,000 miles of use in socal.
 
I'm at two now, as of this morning. Just under 19 months and 22,000 miles.

ockam said:
I certainly do hope the batteries slow down their loss. I just noticed I lost my first bar this weekend after 16 months and 16,000 miles of use in socal.
 
I hope this advisory board can help make the LEAF program and technology a success. Through all of my issues, I really want this program to succeed. For an entire year I LOVED my car, and am very sad at the way I feel now. Chelsea Sexton, I for one will help you in any way I can if it means a successful mass-market EV comes out at some point. If you'd like to come down to Phoenix and drive one of these cars that Nissan says operates within normal parameters, I'll help buy your plane ticket, just PM me if you'd like to come down into the trenches with us fighting the good fight.
 
Back
Top