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Ingineer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 6969
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact: Website

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:09 am

gaswalla wrote:Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/[/size] - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

KayserNissan
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:21 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:59 am

I am not a tech, have not been to any of the real trainings on how the battery pack is put together, but in the sales end of the training they tell us that the battery pack is actually 48 individual 4 module batteries so essentially if you have some sort of a tester you can tell which are the weakest/deadest in the group and just replace those instead of the entire pack.

That was one of the big things that I took away from the online courses on the LEAF because that was one of the biggest reasons I hated the Prius, that thing goes you are replacing the entire thing, the LEAF in theory should be able to find the bad one and replace it.


Could be horribly wrong though ;) might be impossible to separate the battery pack and find the dead/bad ones.
Joe Lukasik - Leaf Specialist and owner.
Kayser Nissan
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OrientExpress
Posts: 1493
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:11 am

Like a replacement engine for an ICE car, the replacement cost of a complete battery pack is probably not relevant to figuring TCO, except as an upper worst case margin.

For example, an engine replacement (which is remanufactured) for my 911 is about 15K + core. But if something goes wrong with the engine, chances are that the subassembly will be replaced and not the entire engine.

So it will be for replacement battery packs for EVs such as the LEAF. If there is an entire battery pack offered up as a replacement, it will most certainly not be new (or virgin), but rather remanufactured, with all of its components brought up to current standards. And over the life of the vehicle, if the battery pack needs maintenance or repair, it will be repaired at the sub-assembly level. So a pack will have only the faulty cells or components replaced, and only after some threshold would the entire pack be replaced with another one. The old pack core, would then be remanufactured, and used on another vehicle. The recycling and remanufacturing of the core pack keeps the actual cost of repair or replacement as economical as possible. I would imagine that Phil's $5K quote includes a core exchange, and that it is not a new pack but a remanufactured one.

From what I can gather about replacement Pack costs, they are quite in line with other major assembly replacement costs for conventional automobiles. And given that the pack is quite modular, they will probably be less.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

gaswalla
Posts: 154
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Leaf Number: 5012
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Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:15 am

Ingineer wrote:
gaswalla wrote:Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil

Great information. Thank you. If LEAF resale values keep plummeting, looks like there will definitely be a market for folks like Phil to retrofit a bigger/better battery into an used LEAF with a dying battery that someone could possibly buy on the cheap.

edatoakrun
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:29 am

Ingineer wrote:
gaswalla wrote:Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil
That is great news! Especially so, since we're hearing it from a reliable source.

The implication is, by the time I choose to increase my (then current) capacity and range in five to ten years, the cost from Nissan could be even lower, and suppliers of alternative or "rebuilt" packs, may offer even more desirable options, either cheaper or with larger capacity giving me longer-than-~20 kWh (available) range.
no condition is permanent

smkettner
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:36 am

I still would like to hear the price from Nissan before I commited to buying a used LEAF with many miles and lost capacity.
Or the discount would be steep reflecting $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

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OrientExpress
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Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:47 am

smkettner wrote: $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.
$15K for a replacement battery is complete FUD, with no basis in reality here or otherwise. But with that said, if you think you can use it as a haggling tool to get a better price on a car, then by all means go for it.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:50 am

smkettner wrote:I still would like to hear the price from Nissan before I commited to buying a used LEAF with many miles and lost capacity.
Or the discount would be steep reflecting $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.
Back OT, I haven't seen any evidence of "plummeting" leaf resale value, other than as anecdotal reported from those who seem to have personal or financial interests in promoting the "rapid LEAF battery degradation" myth.

But if any of those Arizona owners with "degraded" battery packs actually offer them for sale at "degraded" prices, I think I won't be the only one considering what could be a very attractive purchase.
no condition is permanent

smkettner
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Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:59 am

OrientExpress wrote:$15K for a replacement battery is complete FUD, with no basis in reality here or otherwise.
I believe it is based on the component cell price times the number of cells + some for install.
But then I have not actually called to get a price on a single cell module.
Have also read the battery in the new car comprised 1/3 of the cost of the car.
Until the $5,000 price is public I don't fully believe that number will be the selling price either.
The point is we do not know so a well used LEAF is a risk.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
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Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
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Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:21 am

Smkettner:

Yes, but estimating the value of a finished good on component costs is not a valid way to estimate costs of major automobile components for resale or replacement. A great number of types of high value parts consist of recycled and remanufactured components that are obtained as part of the replacement process, i.e. the concept of a "core". Manufacturers do this not only to optimize their manufacturing processes, but also to keep their inventory costs low. It is much cheaper to keep a remanufactured component on the books sitting in a warehouse than a new one. It is also how warranty costs are optimized. A warranty replacement will most certainly be done with a remanufactured part.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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