Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction March 2018

So is the $5,000 remanufactured or new off the line?
If the replacement was anything but brand new off the line I would need a capacity warranty.

It is extremely doubtful that you would be able to buy a brand new pack at any cost.

i am curious about a standardized install cost.
it should be inclusive of labor or, at the most, the shop cost by the hour, which is under 4 hours, as i recall from my accident.

OrientExpress said:

It is extremely doubtful that you would be able to buy a brand new pack at any cost.

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Already happened and under $5k.

OrientExpress said:

It is extremely doubtful that you would be able to buy a brand new pack at any cost.

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California civil code section 1792-1795.8 states that manufacturers must make available replacement parts during the warranty period. Since there is 8 years of limited warranty on the battery, Nissan must sell replacement packs for 8 years from date of sale.

Since this is civil code, they aren't "forced" to do this, but if they don't, you can litigate.

-Phil

Ingineer said:

OrientExpress said:

It is extremely doubtful that you would be able to buy a brand new pack at any cost.

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California civil code section 1792-1795.8 states that manufacturers must make available replacement parts during the warranty period. Since there is 8 years of limited warranty on the battery, Nissan must sell replacement packs for 8 years from date of sale.

Since this is civil code, they aren't "forced" to do this, but if they don't, you can litigate.

-Phil

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Ok, I'd like a new battery. Where do I sign up?

OrientExpress said:

Prices on 2011 LEAF SLs continue to show a normal depreciation curve for a 2 model year old vehicle during a fall model transition period. Actual wholesale transactions show a range $19.6K to $21.7K with retail holding steady at about $25K.

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How is this normal depreciation. It shows a few grand difference between September and August?

As I posted in my last update "Prices on 2011 LEAF SLs continue to show a normal depreciation curve for a 2 model year old vehicle during a fall model transition period. Actual wholesale transactions show a range $19.6K to $21.7K with retail holding steady at about $25K. "

The largest month to month variations in values always happen during model transition. The primary reason for that is that NOS inventory is in closeout which depresses the used market. After new model introduction, month to month variances stabilize.

TonyWilliams said:

Ingineer said:

OrientExpress said:

It is extremely doubtful that you would be able to buy a brand new pack at any cost.

Click to expand...

California civil code section 1792-1795.8 states that manufacturers must make available replacement parts during the warranty period. Since there is 8 years of limited warranty on the battery, Nissan must sell replacement packs for 8 years from date of sale.

Since this is civil code, they aren't "forced" to do this, but if they don't, you can litigate.

-Phil

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Ok, I'd like a new battery. Where do I sign up?

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I've called around and I still can't get a price. You might have to show up at a dealership.

See if they'll let you keep the old one!

California civil code section 1792-1795.8 states that manufacturers must make available replacement parts during the warranty period. Since there is 8 years of limited warranty on the battery, Nissan must sell replacement packs for 8 years from date of sale.

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Yes that is true, but no manufacturer in their right mind is going to hold in inventory (and on the P&L) a ton of brand new unused parts that may have a low take-rate. That is why replacement packs will be remanufactured.

No one would sell you a brand new pack for all the tea in China, (except for one reason, which I won't go into here), you will only be able to buy a remanufactured unit.

Remanufactured parts have similar or identical warranties to new replacement parts (BTW, which is a different warranty from a new car warranty), but the biggest difference is that remanufactured parts cost up to 2/3 less than a new part if it was available.

So we recycle the battery, it costs less, and it is just as good.

So in this case everybody wins.

OrientExpress said:

No one would sell you a brand new pack for all the tea in China

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Ok. I'd like to purchase 48 new modules, please. :roll:

Ingineer said:

gaswalla said:

Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.

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It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil

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That is unheard of pack level pricing, heck it's unheard of cell level pricing for EV modules. Why am I buying cells from China if I can get a complete pack from Nissan for half the price?

JRP3 said:

Ingineer said:

gaswalla said:

Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.

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It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil

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That is unheard of pack level pricing, heck it's unheard of cell level pricing for EV modules. Why am I buying cells from China if I can get a complete pack from Nissan for half the price?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that comes out to around $200 per kW as a retail price? I remember this article that said we might be in that range by 2016, so perhaps Nissan has beat the rest of the EV world to a magic cost. Maybe with a core exchange it gets us to $200 per kW.

The big question, though, is if Nissan has scored such a solid win with battery cost, why not add a TMS and be done with this rapid degradation issue? If battery costs truly hit this number, then I'm taking my solar system off the grid.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/07/13/plug-in-vehicle-battery-costs-of-250-per-kwh-coming-with-drama/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jspearman said:

...that comes out to around $200 per kW as a retail price? I remember this article that said we might be in that range by 2016, so perhaps Nissan has beat the rest of the EV world to a magic cost. Maybe with a core exchange it gets us to $200 per kW.

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This just seems too much like the pixie dust we all believed with 100 mile range and 24 kWh usable battery capacity.

I am sure Nissan is selling below cost at $5k, the publicity would be intolerable otherwise with the recent AZ heat issues.. perhaps not too far below cost if they can get some reuse out of the spent cells.

http://www.willisautocampus.com/exo...san-LEAF-1587cd4f0a0d048e013313b10b6a5bcc.htm
2121 NW 100th Street Des Moines, IA 50325
VIN JN1AZ0CP6BT003329
Internet Price $20,907
Mileage 5,570

Herm said:

I am sure Nissan is selling below cost at $5k, the publicity would be intolerable otherwise with the recent AZ heat issues.. perhaps not too far below cost if they can get some reuse out of the spent cells.

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I know I would like to keep my core. With two of those - even degraded - I could go off-grid. The series voltage is already almost perfectly matched to my solar DC voltage.

the $5,000 cost is exchange price. iow, take out degraded pack, replace with new pack.

so how about $300 plus for new pack? after all a degraded LEAF pack at 70% still has more power than a brand new Volt pack. so what is the Volt pack worth?

now, some have stated (i think...i kinda lost track) that the $5,000 price is non exchange price. that would be nice but i dont think we are quite there yet.

JRP3 said:

That is unheard of pack level pricing, heck it's unheard of cell level pricing for EV modules. Why am I buying cells from China if I can get a complete pack from Nissan for half the price?

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The primary reason remanufactured assemblies are cheaper than new ones is that the majority of its piece parts are ones that are recycled and refurbished. It is very easy to see how a new assembly that might have a retail price of $15K (which translates into COGS of about $10K) would have a remanufactured retail price of $5K. That would put the actual labor and replaced parts COGS in that assembly to be about $2.5K. The rest of the piece has already been made and amortized from its original use. Lastly all refurbished parts always require a core exchange. Without the core, the part would be significantly more expensive.

Initially I think that pack replacements will only be available through Nissan, but as more and more cars are on the road, that means more and more will be in wrecks where they will be deemed "totaled", so that 3rd party re-manufacturers will have access to cores that can be upgraded and sold on the open market. That is how the "hot rod" packs will start to appear.

One last note, when I refer to COGS, that is Cost Of Goods Sold, which is what a manufacturer establishes as the cost of a component or final assembly. COGS is lower that wholesale, and may actually be lower than the material costs for that item because of the internal accounting methods that the manufacturer and/or its supplier uses to derive the COGS.

i am not a fan of non-branded battery replacements. i did that once for one of my apple laptops. it was 40% cheaper and lasted about a year before it started to warp.

never had that with the Apple products.
i would assume branded car batteries would be an even more critical part to get OEM.