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malkit

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
6
I drive about 8 miles a day. I want to mount 2-250 watt solar panels on my car and charge it while parked 8 hours when i am working in office. It is about 2KWH of electricity. I read on this forum that i can drive about 3.5 miles/kwh
Will this work experts?
Germany is supplying 50% of its electricity via solar. Sweden has a mandate to get off oil by 2020.
America is still debating?What a shame
 
I don't think it's very cost effective, and 2 panels really aren't going to fit in any nice way or be practical to carry around. Have you researched the size? Plus, you'd need an inverter capable of operating off grid, as most systems are designed to run using the signal from the grid as a reference to match up to.
 
I started off with the same thinking. I was going to do a small little solar installation just to generate enough to make up for the car charging (and that was when I just had the Leaf). The economics of it just didn't work out. The sweet spot for me ended up being a 24 panel system.

I think if you really start looking into it, and if the economics make sense, you will find you want to go all in.
 
You could get thin-film solar, which is easier to mount but less efficient.
In any case I would suspect there are some series technical challenges ahead and cost-wise this would not make any sense
at all (ever).
 
GeekEV said:
I don't think it's very cost effective, and 2 panels really aren't going to fit in any nice way or be practical to carry around. Have you researched the size? Plus, you'd need an inverter capable of operating off grid, as most systems are designed to run using the signal from the grid as a reference to match up to.

My solar system will mount neatly on my car and i can keep them in my trunk when i dont need them.
It cost will about 1000USD. 500 for the panels another 500 for the off grid pure sine wave inverter.

I was under the impression that only grid tied inverter need the 60hz ac grid frequency to work. Are you sure this applies to the off grid system?

==============================
PS: i want to show people in my office how easy and cost effective it can be to drive an electric car. I want to motivate people to buy this car so that this car can survive.
 
klapauzius said:
You could get thin-film solar, which is easier to mount but less efficient.
In any case I would suspect there are some series technical challenges ahead and cost-wise this would not make any sense
at all (ever).


I am planning to get solar panels from Germany.They are making them twice as efficient.
Solar panels are hugely subsidized there.
 
malkit said:
GeekEV said:
I don't think it's very cost effective, and 2 panels really aren't going to fit in any nice way or be practical to carry around. Have you researched the size? Plus, you'd need an inverter capable of operating off grid, as most systems are designed to run using the signal from the grid as a reference to match up to.

My solar system will mount neatly on my car and i can keep them in my trunk when i dont need them.
It cost will about 1000USD. 500 for the panels another 500 for the off grid pure sine wave inverter.

I was under the impression that only grid tied inverter need the 60hz ac grid frequency to work. Are you sure this applies to the off grid system?

==============================
PS: i want to show people in my office how easy and cost effective it can be to drive an electric car. I want to motivate people to buy this car so that this car can survive.
Very nice. Please share the details of what you got, where, how it all went together and maybe even some pics!

If your inverter is designed of off grid use, then it meets my assertion that "you'd need an inverter capable of operating off grid"... ;)
 
GeekEV said:
malkit said:
GeekEV said:
I don't think it's very cost effective, and 2 panels really aren't going to fit in any nice way or be practical to carry around. Have you researched the size? Plus, you'd need an inverter capable of operating off grid, as most systems are designed to run using the signal from the grid as a reference to match up to.

My solar system will mount neatly on my car and i can keep them in my trunk when i dont need them.
It cost will about 1000USD. 500 for the panels another 500 for the off grid pure sine wave inverter.

I was under the impression that only grid tied inverter need the 60hz ac grid frequency to work. Are you sure this applies to the off grid system?

==============================
PS: i want to show people in my office how easy and cost effective it can be to drive an electric car. I want to motivate people to buy this car so that this car can survive.
Very nice. Please share the details of what you got, where, how it all went together and maybe even some pics!

If your inverter is designed of off grid use, then it meets my assertion that "you'd need an inverter capable of operating off grid"... ;)

I am going out on LONG holidays. Will set up the system and share when i am back.
 
malkit said:
I am planning to get solar panels from Germany.They are making them twice as efficient.
Solar panels are hugely subsidized there.

While its true that they are subsidized in Germany, they nevertheless do not make them twice as efficient.

While Germans have a reputation of being efficient, that does not apply to everything they make.
(I take that back when it comes to cars and appliances, but the US has caught up quite a bit there)

There is a lot of research going on right now to improve efficiency, but nothing has hit the market yet that would be
a radical change from the current panels.
 
malkit said:
I want to mount 2-250 watt solar panels on my car and charge it while parked 8 hours when i am working in office.
Have you seen solar panels in the 200 watt range up close? They are large. Not something you can mount on a car or move around easily. :)
 
The answer remains the same, solar is best on land and putting them on the car is a complete waste of time. If in doubt, see how it works out and report back with an honest answer. It is as practical as a fan generator on the front grill.
 
JeremyW said:
malkit said:
I want to mount 2-250 watt solar panels on my car and charge it while parked 8 hours when i am working in office.
Have you seen solar panels in the 200 watt range up close? They are large. Not something you can mount on a car or move around easily. :)


The panel dimensions are:
Panel Dimensions 64.57" x 39.37" x 1.38"
Leaf dimensions
Length: 4445 mm / 175.0 in.
Width: 1770 mm / 69.7 in

The panel length is less than nissan leaf width, so they will fit without jutting out. I am planning to install 255 watt panels and not 220.

Once i am done with installation i will post photos and videos.
 
What no one here has addressed yet is how these panels will actually charge the car. Set aside for a second the fact that carrying around panels in the trunk instead of just installing them on your roof at home is terribly impractical...

You have 2 250 watt panels. That means you'll have maybe 350-400 watts of AC power available at a maximum (only for about 1 hour on the sunniest of days in summer). On L1, the charger requires 120v @ 12amps, or about 1400 watts. So how in the world do you expect to charge? I haven't tried this to be sure, but will the EVSE/charger operate at all if at least 12 amps aren't available? For most of the day you'd have barely enough power just to operate the cooling fan.

I suppose it may be possible to skip the inverter and get a DC-DC converter to step up the voltage from the panels to ~400VDC then feed it in (at a truly miniscule current) by splicing directly into the pack's DC lines, but I'm guessing you're not prepared to do this. The other option would be to store up a couple days worth of solar in a bank of 12v batteries, then feed it through your inverter when you get enough power to support L1 for maybe an hour, then repeat. How's your trunk looking now with a few car batteries thrown in with 2 giant panels and an inverter?

So, back to that first fact that we set aside. Just install some panels at home and tie them in with the grid. Switch to time of use metering. Then the panels will produce during peak hours when electricity is most valuable, and every small amount they generate can actually be used by your house or banked as credits. And they'll keep on producing even when you're not at work. Then charge your car in the middle of the night when electricity is cheap. Depending on your utility's rates and the season, you may be able to pull 5x as many kwh in the middle of the night as your solar produces on peak and still break even. Makes wayyyy more sense.
 
fooljoe said:
What no one here has addressed yet is how these panels will actually charge the car. Set aside for a second the fact that carrying around panels in the trunk instead of just installing them on your roof at home is terribly impractical...

You have 2 250 watt panels. That means you'll have maybe 350-400 watts of AC power available at a maximum (only for about 1 hour on the sunniest of days in summer). On L1, the charger requires 120v @ 12amps, or about 1400 watts. So how in the world do you expect to charge? I haven't tried this to be sure, but will the EVSE/charger operate at all if at least 12 amps aren't available? For most of the day you'd have barely enough power just to operate the cooling fan.

I suppose it may be possible to skip the inverter and get a DC-DC converter to step up the voltage from the panels to ~400VDC then feed it in (at a truly miniscule current) by splicing directly into the pack's DC lines, but I'm guessing you're not prepared to do this. The other option would be to store up a couple days worth of solar in a bank of 12v batteries, then feed it through your inverter when you get enough power to support L1 for maybe an hour, then repeat. How's your trunk looking now with a few car batteries thrown in with 2 giant panels and an inverter?

So, back to that first fact that we set aside. Just install some panels at home and tie them in with the grid. Switch to time of use metering. Then the panels will produce during peak hours when electricity is most valuable, and every small amount they generate can actually be used by your house or banked as credits. And they'll keep on producing even when you're not at work. Then charge your car in the middle of the night when electricity is cheap. Depending on your utility's rates and the season, you may be able to pull 5x as many kwh in the middle of the night as your solar produces on peak and still break even. Makes wayyyy more sense.


These are the specifications for my 1500 watt inverter. I can see that it can produce 120v @ 12amps in section 2.2
http://www.batterystuff.com/files/manual-S1500-24.pdf.

My solar panel also produce ~10 amps on an average day(connected in series: approx 30v @ 20 amps)
although they are rated as:

Open Circuit Voltage (Voc)37.7 V
Maximum Power at Voltage (Vpm)30.0 V
Short Circuit Current (Isc)9.10 A
Maximum Power at Current (Ipm)8.50 A
http://pvdepot.com/lg-255-watt-lg255s1c-g3-solar-panel.html

I would need some other accessories like solar charge controllers. I have to research this.
Other than that I dont see why i cant do this. Please point out if i am wrong anywhere.
 
malkit said:
My solar panel also produce ~10 amps on an average day(connected in series: approx 30v @ 20 amps)
although they are rated as:

Open Circuit Voltage (Voc)37.7 V
Maximum Power at Voltage (Vpm)30.0 V
Short Circuit Current (Isc)9.10 A
Maximum Power at Current (Ipm)8.50 A
http://pvdepot.com/lg-255-watt-lg255s1c-g3-solar-panel.html

I would need some other accessories like solar charge controllers. I have to research this.
Other than that I dont see why i cant do this. Please point out if i am wrong anywhere.
It doesn't matter how much power your inverter can put out - you're limited to the maximum power that your panels can generate, which as I said before is about 1/4 of what L1 charging requires.

Power=current * voltage. You say your panels can produce approx 30v @ 20 amps, which would mean 30*20=600W, which is of course wrong because their nameplate power is 510W, and that's only achievable at noon at the equator on a perfectly clear day, and it also doesn't take into account losses in the conversion to AC. But anyway, even if it were right, 30v @ 20a = 120v @ 5a. 5a is not going to cut it. And again, these numbers are the instantaneous, best case maximum. In reality, the power produced will be much less, and will bounce all over the place every time a cloud passes, etc. It just won't work.

The direct DC connection to the battery pack is probably the only way it could work, but you've got to "hack" the car for this, and yes look into charge controllers / DC-DC converters, etc. It's just not a good idea no matter how you slice it. I appreciate what you're trying to do by showing your co-workers how you can drive powered by the sun, but setting something like this up can be no more than just a gimmick. If you really want to pursue it maybe you can convince the building owner to build a solar canopy over a parking spot for you that feeds into the main building power and also has a charging station powered from the building main. Looks just as good to the coworkers and actually works.
 
malkit said:
These are the specifications for my 1500 watt inverter. I can see that it can produce 120v @ 12amps in section 2.2
http://www.batterystuff.com/files/manual-S1500-24.pdf.

My solar panel also produce ~10 amps on an average day(connected in series: approx 30v @ 20 amps)
although they are rated as:

Open Circuit Voltage (Voc)37.7 V
Maximum Power at Voltage (Vpm)30.0 V
Short Circuit Current (Isc)9.10 A
Maximum Power at Current (Ipm)8.50 A
http://pvdepot.com/lg-255-watt-lg255s1c-g3-solar-panel.html

I would need some other accessories like solar charge controllers. I have to research this.
Other than that I dont see why i cant do this. Please point out if i am wrong anywhere.
You're getting 20 amps at 30 volts - put that into an inverter and you'll get, at most, 5 amps at 120 volts, assuming no loss through the inverter. The inverter isn't going to make power, only change the ratio between volts and amps (also make it AC).

Sorry, that how it works.
 
I'm guessing he'll LOSE more from the added drag of the solar panels than he'd ever manage to actually generate and get into his battery...but I'd love to watch him try.
 
An alternative view (who'da thunk?!).

Back in the S10E/Ranger EV days, one of the owners had a small wind turbine in the bed of the truck. He worked very near the coast and there was almost always wind during the 10-12 hours he was at work. He'd drive to work, park, extend and tilt-up the turbine, snap the guy lines to the truck and head in to work. It gave him some extra charge and also provided a very public demonstration that EVs are different in many ways.

Maybe the OP might consider a small trailer with three solar panels he could pop-out while parked. Seems to me that panels into a small inverter could feed the 120V L1 charge line. There would only be power when the sun was out, but direct PV to load is regularly done to pump irrigation water on ranches and to run a solar hot water circulation pump.

Marketing isn't efficient, but it'll take a LOT of marketing to expose more people to the reality of EVs.
 
AndyH said:
An alternative view (who'da thunk?!).
I wonder how many people asked him why he didn't try to drive with the turbine up...

Still though, unless you have a lot more than the 2-3 panels discussed here, I don't see how you could support an L1 charge. And even if you had a sufficient number of panels for, say, 3-4 hours a day on L1, then you'd be wasting power when they produced more than the ~1.4kw L1 requires. Charging this way via AC just seems completely unworkable without a battery bank as a buffer.

Gotta go with a direct DC connection. Chademo might work even (lol). Would be interesting to track down this guy and find out how he wired it up to charge.
 
fooljoe said:
AndyH said:
An alternative view (who'da thunk?!).
I wonder how many people asked him why he didn't try to drive with the turbine up...

Still though, unless you have a lot more than the 2-3 panels discussed here, I don't see how you could support an L1 charge. And even if you had a sufficient number of panels for, say, 3-4 hours a day on L1, then you'd be wasting power when they produced more than the ~1.4kw L1 requires. Charging this way via AC just seems completely unworkable without a battery bank as a buffer.

Gotta go with a direct DC connection. Chademo might work even (lol). Would be interesting to track down this guy and find out how he wired it up to charge.
If the goal is to get some charge into a battery while one is away from an outlet, why do we care if some of the energy is lost between the panel and the battery? We lose 95% of energy from burning coal from power plant to plug - we're certainly more efficient than that!

I'm not talking about ROI on the solar equipment here - I'm talking about adding charge to a battery that would otherwise not gain any charge at all.

A direct solar setup should be more efficient than a battery-based system anyway. Solar panels with a small MPPT board feeding a ~90% efficient inverter would provide electrons directly to the Leaf's charger. A battery-based system would require panels feeding a charge controller feeding a battery, which feeds an inverter and then the Leaf charger.

Sure, direct DC should be more efficient - but how many solar panels would one have to haul to hit 450-500VDC? Good luck with that on a portable system. ;)
 
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