Thanks for the pointer. I think I'll buy just one initially, and try it in a torchiere lamp we keep on all night. Looks like it would save roughly 4 kWh per month over the CFL I'm using now. Let's see 4 kWh, that's 16 LEAF mileslne937s said:
"Negawatts" - Preparing for Your New Electric Car
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abasile
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Those Cree bulbs are nice, but they're expensive! ($50/bulb) I really do like the light output of the $22 par30 no-name bulbs from http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LP9660/ref=oss_product . Maybe what I need to do is buy a power meter so that I can confirm they only use 6W as advertised.
garygid
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When on sale at the grocery store (4 for $5 or less), or at the 99.99¢ Store, the CFB's are a LOT less expensive ... though maybe the quality varies.
lne937s
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abasile said:
You'll need to do more than that. You will need to measure lumens output, CRI, color temperature.... I wouldn't choose no-name bulbs unless independently tested. Chances are they have half the output of what they claim, poor color rendering and much faster lumen depreciation.
The CREE downlight retrofits (not really bulbs) have been thouroughly tested and are proven performers. Take a look through CALiPER tests. Unfortunately, they do not list brands and models in the tests, but sometimes you can figure it out. It is amazing how much variance from advertised specs some of these products have-- some LED bulbs are actually less efficient than incandescents.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/reports.html
CREE is more expensive than some cheap, no-name SSL, but they are much better in terms of product quality, light quality and efficiency. You also have to keep in mind where and how the light is used-- downlights and directional lighting tend to do better with SSL. I did some research on this for ISO 14001 certification at my office a couple of years ago and CREE had the best cost/performance ratio... and the current retrofits are half the price of what I was looking at. There are some other products out there that do fairly well from fairly well-known manufacturers (Phillips, Sylvania, etc.), but they are comparable with CREE in terms of price. I would stick with CREE and/or EnergyStar-rated products.
lne937s
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garygid said:
Quality LED's offer a number of benefits over CFL:
Less energy consumption
Less heat (less HVAC)
In recessed fixtures, about 10 times the lifespan
Reduced maintenance costs (if you are a business)
Dimmability to further reduce energy consumption when not needed (not available in cheap CFL and poor quality in more expensive CFL)
Does not lose life with constant switching on and off (for occupancy sensors- further reducing energy consumption)
Instant on at full output
No toxic, bioaccumulative Mercury- which gassifies within the fragile glass of CLF's- and can labor problems due to the need to move people out of a room, ventilate and follow cleanup procedures if a bulb breaks
Long term, LED bulbs come out ahead financially- especially in workplaces
smkettner
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Dimmability sounds interesting. I so far have not been able to get past the price vs CFLs of which I have.
Do you have some that you dim? Is the effect as linear as incandesent right down to very dim?
My fixtures are made for R40 size lamps. Is the Home Depot bulb (linked above) made for this fixture or the more common R30?
Do you have some that you dim? Is the effect as linear as incandesent right down to very dim?
My fixtures are made for R40 size lamps. Is the Home Depot bulb (linked above) made for this fixture or the more common R30?
abasile
Well-known member
lne937s said:
I don't really need to do all of that. We already have them in our kitchen, and are subjectively very happy with the light output.
However, I do admit that only time will tell how long they last and whether there is noticeable lumen depreciation. At the right price, though, I'm willing to be a guinea pig. That said, I think I will follow your recommendation and try out one or two CREE lights. I would like to see how they compare.
lne937s
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smkettner said:
It really isn't a bulb- it is designed to mount into 6" recessed lighting cans. Basically, it screws into the edison in the can, you press it up and it spring mounts in the can with the trim ring flush with the ceiling... However, I guess you could use it as a bulb. Home Depot also offers other LED lights, but they are not made by CREE and I can't vouch for their effectiveness.
I rent, don't have recessed lights, and am not allowed to make those kinds of modifications, so I can't install them at home... but the dimming demos I've seen and the reviews are pretty positive.
LEAFfan
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lne937s said:
I agree except for a few: CFLs (depending on the size) put off a lot less heat than incandescents and not that much more than LEDs. My CFLs have a 5 yr. warranty, so that means your LEDs have a 50 yr. lifespan? I doubt that. My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED. When they expire, I will replace them with LEDs.
Btw, one of the first things I did after buying this home (about 4 yrs. ago) was to replace 75 (had no idea there were this many) incandescents with CFLs. We also had a timer put on the hot water heater (electric) and only need it on about two hours a day instead of 24 like most do. Pre-cooling cuts the energy use by a ton! We don't use the A/C, washer, hot water heater, or cook during the on-peak hours of 3-6 PM weekdays. All of this has given us over $100/mo. less on our bill compared to all the other houses on our block with the same sq. footage. When we add the pvs in Dec., it will be close to $200/mo. cheaper than our neighbors. LEAFfan
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indyflick said:
Ya, hold on...brb...Lights of America (CA) www.lightsofamerica.com, but I didn't buy them online four years ago...can't remember where I found them...maybe WalMart.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
indyflick said:
Wow! I have some other 60-65's that are only 14W, but they could be a different brand. The 60/9 w look like an incandescent, but the 14's have those curls/swirls. I bought the curly ones first, then found the better ones later.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
indyflick said:
Absolutely! .20 is almost free! I love Costco! But I already had mine by then. Dang! It's all in the timing.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
My numbers run slightly worse than 3-1. CFLs i have run like 9 watts to 25 watt spots I also have a bunch of 14/55 (actual/perceived) spots and a few of the round ones. I found that the 14s with a difuser worked better even though i usually need a few more blubs to do the trick
lne937s
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leaffan said:I agree except for a few: CFLs (depending on the size) put off a lot less heat than incandescents and not that much more than LEDs. My CFLs have a 5 yr. warranty, so that means your LEDs have a 50 yr. lifespan? I doubt that. My CFLs put out the equivalent of a 60W incandescent at only 9 waats. That's really close to an LED. When they expire, I will replace them with LEDs.
Here is where it gets confusing. I spent a few months on a lighting proposal as part of an energy efficiency committee at work. If you look at a CFL in manufacturers claims, they look pretty good... However, in real life commercial application it is another story. The CFL bulbs are rated constant on bare bulb at a steady cool temp, with some manufacturer rounding up. Put them in a recessed fixture (and not all are recommended for recessed fixtures) for an office environment, and it is a different story. About half of the light output is lost in fixture. Heat is trapped in fixture, leading to higher power consumption and much shorter lifespan. You want the holes in the ceilling sealed to keep from using HVAC to heat and cool the airspace above the ceiling, causing more thermal problems in the cans. People turn lights on and off. CFL's also tend to completely fail, meaning you have to move up your replacement schedule to account for first failures. In recessed fixtures in an office situation, CFL's need to be replaced regularly (although they are an improvement over incandescents).
However, the CREE retrofits are engineered and rated for the application. While the rated lifespan of a CFL doesn't look too bad on paper for ideal circumstances, the LED fixtures easily last ten times as long in-application. And since they tend to degrade, rather than completely burn out, you can stretch the replacement schedule even longer. The LED retrofit offers much better light output and lifespan in application. The trim ring seals off the ceiling, making it unnessary to replace the cans with sealed backs. Switching on an off does not degrade LED's. And CREE tends to rate their bulbs conservatively (unlike most manufacturers). DOE, Walmart, DOD and some other large organizations that actually have the time, buying power, and capablilties to fully evaluate the options have been going with CREE LED fixtures.
But, if you just look at the numbers used in marketing, it is hard to tell that. You can look at residential consumer warranty rating where they will make you fill out paperwork while being almost as expensive with shipping as a new bulb to have it replaced under warranty and be mislead to think it will last that long in application (like "lifetime warranty" brake pads at Midas). It is like comparing Aiwa boombox advertised wattage to NAD amplifier rated wattage-- in real life the NAD actually measures dramatically higher, but the boombox advertises itself much higher. It really isn't easy for a consumer to figure it out (it took me a while on the committee). You see numbers and think you are comparing apples to apples, but you aren't. And many no-name LED manufacturers also have misleading marketing. Some even use CREE diodes in their fixturers and you would think they would operate comparably, but the electronics and thermal management are not up to par with the CREE fixtures... That's why I recommend people who don't have aquisition departments and access to independant testing to look at Energy Star and some of the other DOE programs and think about the application.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Some of my cfls went out early as well after only 3 years or so but they were high use areas. Previously we had those small 25 watt bulbs and was hard to tell how long they lasted cause their were 8 lights. But guessing they were good for a year or so. Some of the cfls i have are goiing on 10 years and 3 diffeent fixtures
Anyone tied solar tubes for lighting yet?
lne937s
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indyflick said:
No specific experience with those, but skylights can help a lot when the sun is shining...
However, there are even simpler ways to reduce lighting consumption (although you may not like the way it looks)... Paint everything white, use light colored flooring and light colored furnishings. Then use smaller output bulbs and/or dimmers... Much of the light in a room is reflected and light colors will allow you to use daylight longer and use smaller bulbs. White paint for when we repaint and smaller wattage replacement bulbs was actually one of the things that did get approved at our office-- and cost virtually nothing. With some removable, washable (as you will probably need to do so regularly) slip covers, careful use of lighting (not overlighting), and a few bits of color, virtually all white can actually look pretty cool:
http://www.shoreclub.com/#/home/
Jimmydreams
Well-known member
indyflick said:
I have a solartube in my hall bathroom. Before putting in the tube, the hallway was dark and forbidding unless the bathroom light was on. Now, the whole hallways is illuminated from that one solartube. They're pricey, but they do the trick!